Should I get a capo?

[ralph johansson]

Guess you ain't got one of these

You're sure it doesn't have position markers on the side of the neck?

[ralph johansson]

Played with a group where the guitar player did a number of songs in Bf, the fiddle player had a spare fiddle tuned down a step so he could use it in those songs.
I have saved a youtube video of a group where the mandolin player, realizing at the intro to the song, that he needs his capo. You can see him checking his pants and shirt pockets till he finds it. I won't link it as I know the members of the group and the mandolin player might perceive it as mean. (p.m. me if you want the link)

Wonder what "Bf" means? B flat? The he would tune down one step and play B forms instead of Bb forms, which is really no help at all. Bb happens to be the easiest and most versatile key of all on violin and mando.

[AlanN]

No, not sure about that.

Yep, Bb, Eb, F are wonderful keys to play in, sans capo. Can only think of one number written in Eb within a grass-like context, that would be Mitterhoff's Pour Tessa. The beauty of that key and Bb is the availability of the open low strings.

[mandopete]

Wonder what "Bf" means?

Best Friend.

BFF = Best Friend Forever

BFFBb = Best Friend Forever who plays in Bb without a capo!

[Vincent Capostagno]

We should ALL get a Capo. Then there would be no more "should I get a Capo" threads. There would be some "Do I have to use my capo" threads to which my reply would be:"Only if you want to"

P.S. My name is Capostagno so be careful how you word your replies!

[Cheryl Watson]

I don't use a capo very often, but when I need one, I NEED one. Ya know what I mean? I like the Shubb.

[Tom Haywood]

Songs in the key of F frequently cause me to use the capo. It's strange really, because F on the mandolin is an easy key to see the scale and have lots of options available. But for some reason it messes with me in the middle of some songs. Usually someone chooses to sing a song in F that is normally done in another key, such as The Tennessee Waltz. I hear that song in my head in the original key of C, and I know only one person who sings it in F. You really have to play the melody on that one, and you have to play it right. I can make it work in D without any problem, but F always gets my brain and my fingers out of whack on that song. Capo to the third fret, play it in "D", it's easy and it sounds beautiful there. On the other hand, most any gospel tune plays easy in F. Maybe it's because I've heard so many of them sung in F.

[sholmes]

Tune the D And A up a half step, while you do your part. then tune it back down for the next song.

At that point, wouldn't it just make sense to tune all four strings up a half step for the duration of the song?

[sholmes]

The issue isn't using a capo, its "having to" use a capo. The flexibility to use it or not for what ever reason.

There are some effects I like the capo for, but it also makes playing more difficult up the neck because the fret markers don't move up, and I am addicted to the markers.

So, how is "having to" use a capo somehow different than "having to" use the markers? What makes one crutch okay and the other crutch not?

[ralph johansson]

Wonder what "Bf" means? B flat? The he would tune down one step and play B forms instead of Bb forms, which is really no help at all. Bb happens to be the easiest and most versatile key of all on violin and mando.

Seems I misread trhe post I commented on; it said step, not halfstep. So the fiddler would be using C forms to play in Bb, which makes more sense. Wonder what the low tuning does to the tone of the violin; and, still, I'm a bit disturbed by some people's lack of curiosity. The flat keys are really worth exploring and extremely rewarding.

[ralph johansson]

Songs in the key of F frequently cause me to use the capo. It's strange really, because F on the mandolin is an easy key to see the scale and have lots of options available. But for some reason it messes with me in the middle of some songs. Usually someone chooses to sing a song in F that is normally done in another key, such as The Tennessee Waltz. I hear that song in my head in the original key of C, and I know only one person who sings it in F. You really have to play the melody on that one, and you have to play it right. I can make it work in D without any problem, but F always gets my brain and my fingers out of whack on that song. Capo to the third fret, play it in "D", it's easy and it sounds beautiful there. On the other hand, most any gospel tune plays easy in F. Maybe it's because I've heard so many of them sung in F.

I wonder what you mean by "original key". Th original recording by Pee Wee King and Redd Stewart is in Bb. There's a YouTube clip and unless I'm out of tune they seem to be doing it in Ab. Of all the versions I've heard only that by Roy Acuff is in C. Hank Willimas Jr did it in B natural, Patti Page in F, and Norah Jones does it in G. Really it's the kind of song you should try in just about any key; one key may give you ideas that you can transfer to some other key.

I happen to play that song in F, as part of a medley: Tennesse Waltz in F, Missouri Waltz in D, and Kentucky Waltz in Eb. Given all the slides and mordents and similar stuff involved the first two bars in their entirety are played on the d course, and the third bar on the e course. With a capo I would have to move that bar to the a course, higher up the neck. No trouble at all, but a capo certainly is of no help here. Sometimes I end the first 16 bars with a series of double stops in sixths, ending on a-f, which would be unplayable with a capo!

Actually the onlynatural uses I can think of is crosspicking where one course is left open and the others are fretted high. There are also special effects such as sliding up to an open note on the next lower course. I personally have very little use for these effects.

[Eddie Sheehy]

Absolutely... indispensable when changing strings (to hold the strings in place)...

[ralph johansson]

So, how is "having to" use a capo somehow different than "having to" use the markers? What makes one crutch okay and the other crutch not?

Like so many people you're asking the wrong questions. It's not about "okay" or "crutch". E.g., it's not true that for every song there's an easy, capoed, solution and a difficult, non-capoed, one. Things will turn out different, for better or worse, with your choice here. As JeffD's post implies, with a capo things can get pretty confusing going up the neck; having to think one key near the capo, and another up the neck. So a possible result will be that you stay in the safe region near the capo. (I say "possible" because there's a video of A Leftwich capoing and still moving with amazing freedom across the full length of the fretboard.) Also, capo dependence, in the sense of reducing everything to three or four keys, is very likely to limit your range of expression; I'm saying "likely", because I don't know of any professionals who use the capo that way, but there is plenty of evidence from the guitar and banjo in Bluegrass. Not trying out the supposedly "weird keys" means you're missing much of the fun.

As John McGann was cited here I think it's fair to recall his post on Dec 6 in 2009 which I think puts the whole issue in proper perspective.

[AlanN]

Picked New Camptown Races off to the side with my guitar buddy at the Saturday stage show (can't do this number on stage, they don't get it).

Once again, was reminded of the perfectness of Bb. One has the whole range of the fretboard, where drones can be well served on the G and D strings, which allow facile shifting all up and down. Were I to capo on 3 and play out of G position...well, I'd get my tang toungled up, for sure...

[Marc Berman]

I've always stayed away from capo discussions. Coming from a violin mindset (my daughter plays classical and fiddle) I never saw the use for one. I figure using closed position scales you can play in any key you want. I've been working on a chord melody, John Reischman's Over the Rainbow, and now I can see if I was going to play it in another key I would definitely want to use a capo.

Hey, Seth how's your Phoenix doing? I won't be able to make it to MCN this year. My daughter has a performance this weekend, but we are planning on going next year

[sholmes]

Hey, Seth how's your Phoenix doing? I won't be able to make it to MCN this year. My daughter has a performance this weekend, but we are planning on going next year

It continues to be awesome, thanks for asking. Rolfe couldn't be there this year because he was ill. We talked about getting a group Phoenix picture together to send to him but I couldn't pull it together. Camp was, as always, great (except or some poor weather on Friday).

See you next year, if not sooner.

[sholmes]

Like so many people you're asking the wrong questions. It's not about "okay" or "crutch".

I think perhaps you're missing my point. Full disclosure, I don't use a capo on my mandolin, likely never will. But as far as I'm concerned, the capo is a tool and the frets are tools as well. But one is accepted and the other is not.

[Bertram Henze]

One capo?

[herbsandspices]

That's a weird lookin' mandolin!

[ralph johansson]

I think perhaps you're missing my point. Full disclosure, I don't use a capo on my mandolin, likely never will. But as far as I'm concerned, the capo is a tool and the frets are tools as well. But one is accepted and the other is not.

I'm getting your point and I'm rejecting it. All this talk about "okay" and "accepted" is sheer nonsense. Capos are accepted; some people here are quick to point out that Sierra Hull, Andy Leftwich and Ricky Skaggs (in the weird key of C!) use one on occasion - without, of course, asking why. But capos aren't used much, for fairly obvious reasons (so obvious, in fact, that to many of us it's not a choice at all). E.g., they cut off a bit of the bottom range of an already high-pitched instrument, and deprive you of a lot of useful closed chord forms.

Bluegrass guitarists like to use a capo to reduce the keys of A, Bb, B, or even C, to the 5- or 6-string cowboy G form, which is otherwise virtually impossible to fret cleanly up the neck. There are no cowboy chords on mandolin, and although a few keys, such as F and Bb in paticular, offer a wealth of special possibilities, there really are no difficult keys on the mando (neither are there on the guitar if, e.g., you stick to closed four-note forms). The price that guitarists have to pay for their capoing pratice
is sameness.

In what sense are frets tools? The whole instrument is a tool for making music
and frets are a part of its construction, essential to the tonal character of the instrument. I wonder if you can get much sound from a flatpicked fretless instrument.

[journeybear]

Yeesh! The posts about frets being tools give me the willies. Frets are NOT tools - they are part of the instrument. A tool, in this context, is something additional a user applies to affect the instrument's functionality while in use - thus temporary, not integral to the instrument's nature. If you want to pluck a fretless instrument that is tuned in fifths, play a violin pizzicato. That is probably not the sound you want to hear from a mandolin - hence, frets. There may have been a time early in its development when the mandolin did not have frets. If so, that was a long time ago, and is no longer the case.

All this discussion about whether or not to use a capo in general is quite beside the point regarding the OP's question concerning how best to play something in specific - this particular song, or in particular, this specific lick in that song. That really was the question - here's this lick, should I use a capo to play it in this key? I don't believe this has been really addressed. To that end, I think a little more info is needed:

What is this song?
Why must it be played in that key?
Is it necessary to play the lick that repeatedly?

[AlanN]

A resounding yes! to (oh my) posts 95 and 96.

Use one if you must/want to; nobody will tar and feather you. Frets are most assuredly not tools (wherever did that idea come from?)

[sholmes]

A resounding yes! to (oh my) posts 95 and 96.

Use one if you must/want to; nobody will tar and feather you. Frets are most assuredly not tools (wherever did that idea come from?)

You could certainly have a mandolin built without frets. There are fretless guitars, banjos and basses. Violin has no frets. But the overall purpose of the fret and the purpose of the capo are the same, they change the tone. One is built into the instrument, the other is not. But if that analogy doesn't work for you.

A capo is a tool, a tuner is a tool. Why is the former rejected and the latter accepted?

I get the part about the preference of getting the lower end tone of the instrument. That's preference. If I normally play a tune in A and someone wants to play it in Bb, would it not be easier to capo up 1 than to re-learn the tune on the fly? Maybe I'm just an inferior musician (probably am). And there are people in this thread who would condemn others for using a capo. The reason I called out the frets was the particular person who called the capo a crutch also wrote that he was addicted to his frets.

But I don't want to hijack the thread any further. Suffice to say, I don't care if people use capos or not.

[mandroid]

Make a little glass front, box, on the wall .. with a little hammer on the side, ..
as a perfect, handy, place to keep it.

[sholmes]

One capo?

What on earth?