String height from fretboard

[Mike_the_limitless]

Whats the standard height for the strings to be near both the nut and the bridge?

[Mike Bunting]

I don't know, whatever is comfortable I guess.

[Hany Hayek]

If I understand your question correctly, strings should be around 1.5 mm above 12th freight

[Phil Goodson]

This question would probably be better answered in the Builder section of the forum.

But I'll say the the clearance between the string and 1st fret is 8-14 thousanths of an inch on my mandolins (increasing as string gauge increases) and 2.5 to 4.5 sixty-fourths of an inch at the 12th fret.

Hope this helps you.

[bluenote23]

Forum member Rob Meldrum has written an E-book about setting up your mandolin with your questions answered. You can contact him and ask him for a free copy of his book here: rob.meldrum@gmail.com

In his book he gives 1st fret measurement as .011 to.013 inches, 12th fret as .059 inches. You need a feeler gauge to make these measurements.

[Mike_the_limitless]

Thought so. I have the book. I received a mandolin recently that was set up with a string height of about .005 from the fret. I thought that was a bit low.

Why would they make it so low? it kind of buzzes if you use any fret near the nut.

[pefjr]

A business card between the G and the first fret, 2mm height at the 12th fret for the G, 1mm for the E. Take it down much lower and you will discover which frets the buzz comes from......or worse ...a neck bow or warped fretboard.

[Danny Thomasson]

I heard that you should be able to pass a nickel between the 12th fret and all the strings. Is that a myth or true?

[Mike_the_limitless]

Actually, I take that back. The string is basically directly touching the fret at all times.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Mike - Both my instruments measure :- 1st fret to both G & E strings = .05mm (.020"). 12th fret to G strings = 2mm (.080") / 12th fret to E strings = 1.5mm (.060") . You can't really control the string height at the 1st fret as it's set by the nut slot depth.It would take a lot of bridge height to lift the strings up from the fret if they are touching. If that's the case,then (IMHO) you need to seek out a good luthier & have the nut replaced & your instrument set up properly afterwards.You can easily make the same measurements yourself using a 6" steel rule that has millimeters on it,unless you can lay your hands on a set of feeler gauges,
Ivan

[Tobin]

So I'd like to piggyback a question off of this. I'm sure it's been addressed before, but my search-fu is weak.

Everybody talks about string height at the G and E strings. But what about the D and A strings - specifically when dealing with a radiused fretboard and a flat bridge? It seems to me that if you lower the bridge as low as you can go on the G and E strings without buzzing, you're going to end up with buzzing D and A strings, due to them being over the high point of the arch.

How does one adjust all the strings to the ideal height? Is there such a thing as a radiused saddle?

[Max Girouard]

How does one adjust all the strings to the ideal height? Is there such a thing as a radiused saddle?

Usually the saddle is radiused to match the fretboard radius.

[Tobin]

Must be only higher-end mandolins that come that way, then. My Michael Kelly FSE has a radiused fretboard but a flat saddle.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Tobin - As the bridge can only be raised as a whole unit,it can be raised at one side or the other independently,or raised at both sides (G & E) to give the same string height on both sides.If you raise the G strings until they're the correct height (for you),you will raise the D strings by a small amount & also the A strings by a smaller amount.Again,if you raise the E strings,you'll also raise the A & D strings by lesser amounts. Re.your Michael Kelly mandolin - my first mandolin was a MK & it did have a radiused bridge saddle as yours should have. Going to the extreme level,if you lower your bridge right down,then,with a flat saddle & radiused f/board,the A & D strings should touch the f/board & the G & E strings be just above the frets as the f/board will curve down away from them exactly as you say. You need to either sand your bridge saddle to a radius & re-cut the G & E slots - not hard,or,buy a new radiused bridge & fit it,again not hard if you think about what you're doing & take your time. I fitted a new bridge to a mandolin & i'd only been playing for about 6 months.Either that,or find a good luthier who'd sort your bridge out one way or the other & also set it up for you,
Ivan

[Tobin]

Thanks, Ivan. The saddle is definitely flat on mine, although the fretboard and frets are radiused. It's annoying that I have to have a significantly different string height between G/D and A/E strings, due to the arc of the frets and a flat saddle.

As for sanding it down to a radius and re-cutting the slots, I'd probably need to let a professional do that. One of the complicating issues on mine is that it's the FSE model which has a wire coming through the soundboard into a hole in the foot of the bridge. So you can't just remove the bridge entirely from the mandolin... it's sort of hooked onto the body with an umbilical cord. Even moving it around for intonation purposes is a pain because its movement is limited by that wire.

I seriously need to find a decent luthier in my area who can do another setup job on this mandolin, and maybe even reshape the saddle (or replace it entirely).

[Ivan Kelsall]

Tobin - you could very easily do the bridge saddle job yourself,but if you feel that your mandolin needs a set up as well,then in taking it to a good luthier ,you've made the correct choice - keep us posted.Too many threads disappear without us ever knowing how things turned out for the OP (Original Poster). Go to the 'Builders' list at the top of the Cafe homepage,open it up & then do a search within that section for Texas & it'll give you a listing of builders in your state,
Good luck - Ivan

[Tobin]

Tobin - you could very easily do the bridge saddle job yourself,but if you feel that your mandolin needs a set up as well,then in taking it to a good luthier ,you've made the correct choice - keep us posted.Too many threads disappear without us ever knowing how things turned out for the OP (Original Poster). Go to the 'Builders' list at the top of the Cafe homepage,open it up & then do a search within that section for Texas & it'll give you a listing of builders in your state,
Good luck - Ivan

Well, since you requested that I keep you posted, here's the deal:

My saddle was originally radiused to match the fretboard. It appears that what has happened over time is that the saddle has deflected (i.e. sagged) in the middle. So now the top is flat and the bottom has an obvious belly in it.

I think the cause of this, to be quite honest, is that it's just a poor design by Michael Kelly brand designers. This is the FSE model which has a piezo inside the saddle. To do that, they made the saddle in two parts: a top and a bottom. It's like a sandwich, with the piezo in the middle. And there's a seam along the middle of the saddle where they glued it all back together. It seems that this design just can't hold up to the string pressure like it should, and has sagged significantly.

I never use this mandolin plugged in, so I think what I'm going to have to do is just put a new complete bridge on it. Which means cutting out the wiring to the piezo in the old bridge. I'd rather have a dead electronics system and a good bridge than a live electronics system with a bridge that sags. Even if I tried to re-shape the top of the existing saddle, I'm not very confident that it will keep that shape, and it may end up sagging even more over time until the bottom of the saddle actually touches the bridge base.

[stevejay]

I heard that you should be able to pass a nickel between the 12th fret and all the strings. Is that a myth or true?

I would like to know as well. I'm more likely to have a nickel or credit card on me than feeler gauges. Later I will try and see what a nickel's width at 12 looks like on my mandolin. It's all ballpark, but a convenient place to start if it is true.

[form]

Not all mandolins are created equal. My MD305 requires the g string be about 2 nickels' thickness away at the 12th fret or else it buzzes madly with any open or fretted pluck. It's the main frustration I have with it...if that were resolved then I would probably keep it and play it for a long time because it sounds very good IMO. I don't really know how a "setup" would fix that problem...

[Tobin]

I'm surprised no one has addressed this yet. The official specification for a nickel is 1.95mm thick. That equates to 0.077 inches.

According to Rob Meldrum's guide on mandolin setup, you should be able to achieve buzz-free playing with the G string set at a 0.050 inch gap a the 12th fret. So a nickel would be overkill. And if you're having to use a double-nickel thickness, which is three times the recommended gap, something is wrong. Have you checked to make sure your frets are level, the neck is straight, and the nut slot isn't too low? While rare, sometimes you'll see a nut slot that's too deep, causing buzzing at the first fret. People will have to raise their action way up at the bridge to try to overcome it. Can you lower your action until you hear buzzing and then tell us where the buzzing is coming from?

The ideal height of a G string at the first fret is 0.013 inches, which is slightly less than half the thickness of a credit card (those are standardized at 0.030 inches). Can you check that height?

[Jonas Bombeke]

Hey, Tobin!

No need to cut off the wire! I had one of the exact same type of bridges, where the piezo element is sandwiched between the two parts of the saddle. Coincidentally, I just put a new one on today!
You'll find that, if you fish the wire out of one of the F-holes, you can just unplug it! It is connected with a 2.5mm jack, if I recall correctly. That way, you can still attach a new one at a later date (which I did).

Cheers!
Jonas

[Tobin]

Awesome, Jonas. Thanks for the info. I was hoping that would be the case. I just haven't had the chance to peep in there and see if it was easily disconnectable.

When you unplugged it, were you able to pull the entire bridge/saddle assembly right off? By that, I mean did the 2.5mm jack come out through the hole that's under the bridge?

[Jonas Bombeke]

Exactly. The little jack is barely any bigger than the wire itself.

[yankees1]

Mike - Both my instruments measure :- 1st fret to both G & E strings = .05mm (.020"). 12th fret to G strings = 2mm (.080") / 12th fret to E strings = 1.5mm (.060") . You can't really control the string height at the 1st fret as it's set by the nut slot depth.It would take a lot of bridge height to lift the strings up from the fret if they are touching. If that's the case,then (IMHO) you need to seek out a good luthier & have the nut replaced & your instrument set up properly afterwards.You can easily make the same measurements yourself using a 6" steel rule that has millimeters on it,unless you can lay your hands on a set of feeler gauges, Ivan

Ivan, you say at the 12th fret the distance between fret and string should be 1.5 mm. When I slide my 1.5mm pick under the string at this point it pushed the string up. Should the pick slightly make contact with the string or not contact the string at all ?