nylon mandocello strings

[the padma]

Nylon mandocello strings


Hi

I am in need of nylon mandocello strings that are 42 inches long with no ball on the end.

The string length of the instrument is 29 inches. The extra length is for the extra long after lengths.

Anybody know what is available or where to get them from?



thank you

duh Padma

[Marty Jacobson]

That should be a fun instrument. Check out this thread... Arbarnhart did it with a mix of off-the-shelf nylon guitar strings.

Yes, you can get all kinds of gauges and for a little more I can get beefier CC strings, but these are already settling in and staying in tune better, so I will probably stick with what I have. I bought from an outfit that will let you cobble together guitar sets however you want for the same low price and even had a price break at 3 sets, so I bought 18 strings and got a mix of extra high tension EE strings (to tune to CC), high tension AA (to tune to GG), normal D strings and normal mono G strings (to tune to A).

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...cal-mandocello

D'addario Pro-Arte strings are 40.5" long (the ones I measured, at least). So it's in the ballpark... perhaps other manufacturers make strings that are slightly longer, I just don't have any other brands on hand, and they rarely list the string length as a spec.

Worst case scenario, could you make the tailpiece or tailpiece gut longer?

[Jim Garber]

I wonder if classical guitar strings would work -- I don't know what those players who use those multi-string guitars use but that may be a possibility. it looks like LaBella has all kinds of sets of thicker nylon strings. Otherwise you could contact customer service at Aquila and they can prob make you a custom set or two.

[Dusepo]

+1 for classical guitar strings, if you can find some long enough... and you may have to find a heavy guage for some.

And nice to see you here Padma!! :D

[Walt Kuhlman]

I think I would begin my search in this area. I know that some may not be loop end, but the ball could be removed.

http://www.amazon.com/Thomastik-Domi.../dp/B002AKQVDS

[Jim Garber]

T-I cello strings are pretty pricey ($92) and you would need two sets. They might be too high tension, too. Also I don't know if Padma wanted more like classical guitar strings.

[Marty Jacobson]

T-I cello strings are pretty pricey ($92)....

That's $92. Just for the C string. (to be fair, you can get the Dominant chrome steel version for only $56.) Gulp. Now I know why my dad went pale every time my sister wanted to change her cello strings...

[Jim Garber]

As for Aquila Nylgut... perhaps this page might help, tho i would check with customer service... I am not so sure about the measurements they give. It does look like they have the length 42 inches = ~108cm and they have 120cm and 200 cm.

[Walt Kuhlman]

As I said, start your search, not buy these. I would think the G or D strings from Tomasik. The point I am trying to make is the guitar string, though the length may be OK would NOT have good tension. Aqulia would be a good choice as well, but once they begin customizing the price would rise quickly.

[Jim Garber]

The page I referenced above I think has a good range of strings. Maybe those gauges will work for the most part. Maybe I am wrong about this, but I would think that cello strings might not sound as good as those meant for plucked instruments. In addition, I have a feeling that Padma is making a mandocello that needs very low tension strings.

The T-I G string is about $50 and the D is $42, the A is $30. A full set is $180 and you would need 2 sets so we are talking $360 for a set of strings. (Those prices are from sharmusic.com who discounts pretty decently.)

I ordered two sets (the minimum) of custom strings (6 in a set) for mandolino from Aquila and it was only $30. I can't imagine that two custom sets of mandocello gauges strings would be more than $100.

[Walt Kuhlman]

No doubt the Thomastik are a high priced string, nor do I think the low cello 'C' would be the way to go considering the tension as Jim mentions. I visited the Aqulia Italy site and found their heavier gauge strings to be a bit more in cost, re: their guitar strings etc.

Here is the link I am referring to: http://www.aquilacorde.com/index.php...d=1623&lang=en

There are a number of string prices and options, I hope the OP finds this helpful. To find the price lists, etc. you need to go to Aqulia's order page.

[Nevin]

I play bass mostly. If you gasp at cello strings, pity us poor bass players. That said, a lot of rockabilly bass players buy nylon mono-filament used in weed wackers for strings. If you know the gauges you need, you should be able to get a set together pretty cheap.

[Tom Wright]

I would check into strings for concert harp--they are intended for plucking and come in plain and round wound, and are pretty long. Both monofilament nylon and gut are available in the plain strings, and they list them for the intended pitches and octaves. I could ask our harpist about cello-equivalent strings, assuming approximately cello playing scale length.

Definitely not cello strings, they are damped for better bow response and would be dull in tone.

[Bernie Daniel]

I play bass mostly. If you gasp at cello strings, pity us poor bass players. That said, a lot of rockabilly bass players buy nylon mono-filament used in weed wackers for strings. If you know the gauges you need, you should be able to get a set together pretty cheap.

Well THAT is pretty interesting! Do weed whacker strings come in different gauges?

Humor aside no one has touched much on the gauges of these nylon mandocello stings.

That is a very long scale mandocello at 29" -- its longer actually then a 4/4 size violin cello which is usually about 27".

So with such a long scale I guess you could be using much lighter gauge than the ones supplied by D'Addario. The lighter gauge is certainly good -- but the kind of stretch required by a 29" scale would be challenging yes?

[the padma]

Gotta thank all of you for posting to this question of mine...been very help full to say the least.

It looks like me gonna get 2 sets of Aquila Alabastro Nylguts and some of their .056ers for the low C's. The total cost with shipping is less than $25 so me thinks me getting off real light here.

Gonna first try C#c# F#f# a#a# d#d# spread from .056ers up to about .020 or maybe .028s . Ya, this instrument is to be tuned to A at 432 and played in the dedicated key of C#m. with true temperament fretting for perfect 3rds 5ths 7ths and 9ths for that key.

Now to all you that say 29 inch string length may be a bit too long... well me say go play a P or Jazz bass for a while ~ you know ~ to stretch yer fingers back into shape.

But to be honest with you dudes...me thought of leaving the neck square and screwing down the fretboard where the inlays would go...then play the sucker for a bit... doing bass runs is one thing...cording is something else and so, if necessary, me could easily scarf joint the neck down to 27 inches, throw in a truss rod and go with bronzes.

We see how this unfolds...

oh and umm here be some eye candy of what its looking like so far...

Its a 13 staved "turtle" back birch wish bone construction (neck and ribs all one piece)
Lutz top, ladder braced, violin style tailpiece.



with any luck me be closing the box up tomorrow...but me in no hurry ..this build has been on my bench since April of 2009. Hope to have it playable by early summer.
and thats when me will post the build from start to finish. ~ but don't be holdin yer breath, me got 9 other builds on the go and on hold for parts so me been tinkering with this one again.


blessings
duh ?adma

[Bernie Daniel]

.....Now to all you that say 29 inch string length may be a bit too long... well me say go play a P or Jazz bass for a while ~ you know ~ to stretch yer fingers back into shape.

But to be honest with you dudes...me thought of leaving the neck square and screwing down the fretboard where the inlays would go...then play the sucker for a bit... doing bass runs is one thing...cording is something else and so, if necessary, me could easily scarf joint the neck down to 27 inches, throw in a truss rod and go with bronzes.

We see how this unfolds...

Amazing! I was just pondering yesterday it I could secure a fret board by putting screws in the places with the fret markers would go just to see how I like it. From your comment it sounds like this might work out?

I hope you post pics of the finished product it will be most interesting to see that long neck instrument strung up -- I also think that the buzzing so typical of mandocello will not be as much of a problem on this new instrument with nylon strings and the smaller diameters.

[Nevin]

I would not go the route of screwing the fretboard on a as a temporary way of trying things out. To have any idea of how well it plays, you would have to do a full fret job and then do a total re-fret when you glued it on. The chances that the board would stay the same strike me as very low.

[the padma]

I would not go the route of screwing the fretboard on a as a temporary way of trying things out. To have any idea of how well it plays, you would have to do a full fret job and then do a total re-fret when you glued it on. The chances that the board would stay the same strike me as very low.

Yo, Nevin,

Ya me has strung up a few washtubs and garbage cans in the life of duh Padma. Fun builds eh.

Fret boards are often installed by some loofers using registry pins. Now waz the difference between a registry pin and a #2 screw other than a few K and some threads? Once keyed and registered properly, the part may be installed / removed many times if need be. Furthermore...please share your thinking about why the board would not "stay the same?" Thats the part me don't quite get, like why would I have to do a "total" refret job" if I decide to keep the 29 inch length?

Yes is true, if me decide to scarf for a shorter neck, ya, new board, but whats the big deal ~ a few feet of fret wire that I buy by the role, a chunk of wood and an hour or so of me time is no big deal when building experimental instruments.

Be that as it may...regarding the fret board. How would you go about installing a temporary fret board?


Blessings
duh ?adma

[Walt Kuhlman]

You can download a string calculator here: http://www.wadsworth-lutes.co.uk/downloads.htm

A nice program for determining string size/length vs. tension

[Walt Kuhlman]

This page may be a bit easier: http://www.wadsworth-lutes.co.uk/strings.htm

[Nevin]

First let me come clean and say my only neck/fret work has been on guitars and basses. My concern was that pins or screws are only attaching the board at a few points. When you glue a board you attach it on the entire surface and apply clamping pressure. Also if the board is fretted and removed, the frets are going to put a fair amount of back pressure on the board. The board is likely to deform when you remove it. These all make me think the board is not going to keep the same geometry between when it is pinned and when it is glued. If so, you would have to do at least some fret leveling and crowning work, possibly a lot. I honestly don't know how you would go about having a temporary board. You could always have two boards.

[the padma]

My concern was that pins or screws are only attaching the board at a few points. When you glue a board you attach it on the entire surface and apply clamping pressure. Also if the board is fretted and removed, the frets are going to put a fair amount of back pressure on the board. The board is likely to deform when you remove it. These all make me think the board is not going to keep the same geometry between when it is pinned and when it is glued. If so, you would have to do at least some fret leveling and crowning work, possibly a lot. I honestly don't know how you would go about having a temporary board. You could always have two boards.

your concern is correct..it is only attached at a few points...so???

back pressure...depends on the kurf cuts width and the width of the frets tang .... is called compression fretting.

the intent and purpose of this removable board was to determine if a 29 inch string length was acceptable.

the board for this instrument is wedged and cantilevered from the 14th... 3/8 " at the nut and about 1/2 at the 12th... Thats a lot of meat to start deforming.

once screwed down... being a test, it will only be on there for a day or three at the most. Chances are it is not going to deform anything in that short of time in climate controlled shop and even if it did...and the decision is made to stay at 29 inches then it can be clamped out when gluing...so again no big deal.

and if me decide to shorten the neck, then the board is in the fire box, I have heat and spend a few hrs making a new board...again no big deal.

There are a few methods of temp fret boards...I just posted one. Another is thin or weak hide glue, a third is watered down white glue and a sheet of bond paper, oh ya then there is double sided tape but thats real quick and dirty. All have their virtues and sever different purposes beside just being temporary.

So lets recap Nevin...Its a test, not eternity. Besides I have never encountered a board that once fretted ever deformed weather she was screwed down or left sitting on a bench for a few days before the final glue up, unless of course weather conditions changed...heat. humidity ect.

[Nevin]

Ok, The Padma, I think I misunderstood. I have had problems with boards warping before they were attached. If fretted and dressed, I was afraid you would have a problem and have to do the leveling and dressing all over again. I was in no way intending to come off superior or attacking you in any way. If I did, I apologize.

[Bernie Daniel]

....Besides I have never encountered a board that once fretted ever deformed weather she was screwed down or left sitting on a bench for a few days before the final glue up, unless of course weather conditions changed...heat. humidity ect.

Would this be true for a smaller fret board like mandolin size? I have an ebony mandolin fret board (0.25" stock) that is cut out and slotted and if I could I'd like to pay a local repair guy to do the frets on it and then I'll glue it on when I'm ready. But I also had heard the board would warp if fretted free of the neck and that it would be better to glue on THEN fret.

[the padma]

Yo, Bernie,

gab a hammer and pound in them frets...ain't no big deal...ain't brain surgery.

Lost of tutorials all over the net on how too.

Wood, once stabilized and kept in a controlled environment don't warp.

Regarding this or that first...depends if its night or day or if the sun is shining.

You getting the gist of me drift?



blessings
duh ?adma