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Thread: Monroe

  1. #26
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    Bill may not have a clear toned voice but i think its the best of the best. Exspecially for bluegrass. Just think bluegrass as of now wouldn't be here without Monroe. Skaggs wouldn't be pickin those mournful sounds without Monroe. The music world would be a different place.

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    I'm with you, Mike. I actually like his singing even better than his mandolin playing, and I do like the latter very much.

    Evan, I enjoy seeing that picture (seen it before, enjoyed it then, too). Man, those 70's haircuts...or was that in the 90's? (Ha ha ha).

    I got a chuckle over that comment about Peter Rowan. I suspect Bill might have had a, shall we say, less than high approval rate of Peter's, shall we say, fondness for various...substances? Just a wild guess....

    Mark
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    PETER...SINCE I'M MAD AT YOU YOUR GOING TO HAVE TO SING BACK UP TO MY BOY JAMES.
    COULD YOU IMAGINE..?

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    I guess it is always hard for me to see my hero's character flaws displayed so I can see them. Makes me feel conflicted somehow. I didn't like BM for a long time. But later someone challenged me to study it closer. I fell in love and have never been the same. He was just a man though, full of flaws. Brings it all down to earth doesn't it.

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    One of the last times I saw WSM in-person was at an outdoor park in Pa. - After the/his show, he came out and sat in a folding chair at the stage door ; there were folks lined-up for autographs, pics,..., etc. - I stood at a distance and took notice of the "mix" of those in line ; I took note of senior citizens with "walkers".., hippie-type(no offence intended).., middle-aged/class "blue-collars", "professional" types, teenagers... - many "dads' had their kids either in their arms or on their shoulders... Bill stayed 'till everyone got what the came for : to see and shake hands with "the master" - I regret that I did not have my camera... - THAT scene would speak a thousand words.. IMHO.. Moose.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by (07-F HOLE 3 POINT @ Jan. 26 2005, 19:48)
    SPRUCE, i would agree in his later years but not in the early years. go listen to the original cry cry darlin, you'll find her name, blue moon etc, and then tell me he couldn't sing! #I would never say he's been the best but I would say he's without a doubt my favorite, with Duffy not to far behind @ #2.....Spruce dont get mad at me lets just agree to disagree ok?.....I still love to read your statements on wood....may God bless..RJ
    Hi RJ...

    My tongue was firmly in my cheek when I made it sound like I was dissing Mr. Bill...

    Nothing could be further from the truth....

    To me, he's one of the solid cornerstones of modern music, period.

    I recently ran across an old reel-to-reel tape of a radio broadcast of Bill with the BGB at the Great American Music Hall in SF in late '77, and what a joy it was to relive that evening.

    He played "Right, Right On", saying that it was the first time they ever played the tune.

    But a really cool part of the show was after he broke a string on "My Little Georgia Rose" and was handed the opening band's mandolin while his was being restrung.
    He did a few short upstroke Gmin chords, and then ripped a sizzling "Kentucky Mandolin" on an unfamiliar mandolin.

    Needless to say, it sounded just like Bill. #I think that mando could have been an Ibanez and it would have sounded the same. #

    That man's hands had so much tone it them...

  7. #32
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    Great story! Thanks for sharing.

  8. #33
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    Last time there was a Monroe thread I was ridiculed for at least trying
    to contribute, so I've hesitated to join. Now that the thread
    has grown to 31 posts I take the risk.

    I see the exact place Monroe and his music have in my heart. Hadn't
    been for Bluegrass music I would never have picked up the mandolin
    in 1966. I had heard all of Monroe's LPs by then and I believe
    he was the first BG act I ever heard, on a country music
    sampler in 1961 or 62. Or maybe Flatt and Scruggs.
    (the first live act was the Stanley Bros. in early 66 - Carter Stanley
    was marked by his illness and its causes)


    My focus for some reason had narrowed since I started playing the
    guitar in 1958. Perhaps I felt this was a music I could actually master.
    I devoured it. In 1969 I heard my first BG festivals. I watched Monroe
    with one sorry group at Bean Blossom, at Berryville, and at the Ryman.
    Glimpses of greatness were to be had only with his
    ex-associates, notably J Martin, D McCoury, and Mac Wiseman.

    Monroe had 10 groups at his festival and my impression was there aren't
    that many groups that are even half-way good. BG seemed like a provincial
    music, and a thing of the past. I was actually witnessing
    the beginning of a process. But I lost interest, for the most part.

    Since then BG has been but one part of my background, something I try to incorporate in my playing along with lots of other influences.
    I like the old mixolydian and the blues, I loved Monroe's emphasis of the fiddle,
    I've always enjoyed his singing, although
    my role model in those days was Duffy and the Country Gentlemen.
    (I actually met Duffy three times, twice in his shop, and once at a party
    in Silver Springs, Maryland. Also heard him sub twice for J Gaudreau,
    although he had left the group.Quite a character,very friendly though)

    I realize today, whatever you've heard, whatever has impressed you
    at one time is part of yourself, you can't just throw it away.
    I adopted some of Monroe's blues ideas, but with a freer phrasing
    (the jazz and Western Swing influence), and some of the fiddle
    tunes (in the mixolydian). I always thought it was odd that he
    reserved his melodic imagination almost exclusively for his
    instrumentals. I still play the Lonesome Moonlight Waltz
    and Crossing the Cumberlands, purely as a mandolin piece,
    with a locked g on the third course, to emulate the banjo.
    I still get ideas, or, perhaps, ideers from his music.

    I am aware of his limitations, therefore also of his originality.
    I don't want to belittle him and I don't want
    to put him on a pedestal, as music is always and only music to me.

    And I don't hear the "astonishing versatility" that
    Smith raves about in his book - actually, as ususal with journalists,
    I find most of his comments on the music woefully
    inadequate and confusing.

  9. #34
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    Mr. Hackman : That is an excellent, well-put & most objectice post ; thanks for sharing it. (I agree.., by the way!)- Moose.

  10. #35
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    Bill Monroe- either you "get it" or you don't.

    I used to didn't "get it".

    I was looking for stuff I was hearing "today" in his playing, and it's always a mistake to put something down for what it isn't instead of really fully seeing what it IS. Now I get it, it took time and some wising up on my part, and his music now has a huge place in my musical universe.

    Anybody who complains he's sloppy or out of tune or anything like that is missing th epoint (I know, I used to do it!) It's like asking to have the garlic removed from the sauce. SO WHAT!?! You wanna just eat cream o'wheat your whole life? There's lots of vanilla shakes available in the mandolin world (and I love them), but I also love the incredible range of emotion I hear in Mr. Monroe's music, everything from tender to punch your lights out; from a hand on your shoulder to a middle finger and groin kick.

    Now, that's one HUMAN being.

    You want smooth and clean all the time? I don't have to tell you who to listen to.

    You wanna hear a STORY, LIFE is somebody's playing? Look no further.

    Not to imply that smooth=soulless or anything like that. It's just that with Mr. Bill Monroe, you are dealing with a different set of emotional cards.

    Those Bear Family boxes are some powerful listening. So is that original bluegrass band with Flatt and Scruggs. I wonder how many players out there who put down Bill have really checked that stuff out beyond a cursory glance...
    John McGann, Associate Professor, Berklee College of Music
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  11. #36

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    That says it for me, thanks John. In a world of cheesy TV formed emotions, Monroe is just REAL.

  12. #37
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    "Now, that John McGann, he plays a parh'ful lot of notes." WSM <G>

  13. #38
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    Im enjoying reading every post. Good time Good time.

  14. #39
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    It has to be in context as well; you won't find a bad mandolin note on the recording(s) of "The Original Bluegrass Band" (with Flatt & Scruggs) or with his brother Charlie as "The Monroe Brothers" and as for his singing are we talking about the inimitable "A Voice From on High" or the countless dreadful vocal scrapings found on many other recordings. (I am a fan by the way.....)
    But Amsterdam was always good for grieving
    And London never fails to leave me blue
    And Paris never was my kinda town
    So I walked around with the Ft. Worth Blues

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    Evan, I just figured out a note to leave out. I tied a string around the finger that plays it so's I'll remember...



    John McGann, Associate Professor, Berklee College of Music
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    You know, it's funny that when a lot of players came along in the 60's-70's who were throwing in some "weird" phrasing or wild notes, they were written off by some as being too "out there"...

    Sam and Dawg come to mind...

    But if you listen to some of the solos that Mr. Bill took throughout his whole career (especially in live performance), there's some just crazy stuff that he plays....

    Live versions of "Wayfarring Stranger" #from about '66-68 come to mind...
    All those upstroke harmonics and spooky phrasing....

    I mean, the guy was wacked, and yet I think most people view him as a rather conservative player with a ton of soul...

    Maybe it was the suit and hat... #

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    Yeah Bruce- i heard some live stuff c.1963 or so that is truly avant-garde!
    John McGann, Associate Professor, Berklee College of Music
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  18. #43
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    A few months ago, I talked with an older guy who listened to Monroe in the 1940s. "We didn't take to him right away," he said, "He was kind of radical..." Now it's traditional. It just takes time.

    The books by Richard Smith and Butch Robins are both essential, as is Jom Rooney's BOSSMEN: BILL MONROE AND MUDDY WATERS. The personal stories don't diminish Monroe a bit in my eyes - they only explain a few things I suspected from observation. These guys are my heroes, but they are human, too. It's also nice that some of those stories didn't circulate too much in his lifetime. Unlike politicians, bluegrass and country musicians sometimes get a little privacy regarding their private lives - although most seem to have lives filled with juicy stories.

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    Oh, by the way, Britsh magazine Country Music People has a nice article
    about Monroe in the latest issue. It centers on Monroe's UK tour in 1975.

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    I must add an essential book to the one's mentioned above, all of which I have, of course.
    One of the best, most in-depth and scholarly books relating to Bill Monroe is Tom Ewing's The Bill Monroe Reader.
    Tom was not only Monroe's last 'guitar man' for 10 years, but has been the writer of the the Bluegrass Unlimited historical column for a long time. He may well be the most authoritative source for Monrovian history.
    And at present Tom has been travelling around the country doing research on the lesser-known periods of Monroe's early career for his authoritative biography of Bill Monroe, also to be published and released by the University of Illinois press.
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    Is Tom playing with anyone now? He's a nice fellow. He put some of the old songs back when he played w/ BM. I liked Bill's music while he was there. Maybe more than when W. Lewis was there. Seems like when Baker was there bill never played as many solos or breaks. Bill loved the fiddle I think. Tom has a smooth voice and style. It was different at first but still good.

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    There are a lot of things that can be said about Bill Monroe. Best mandolin player ever, is not one of them. I mean no disrespect to the man, but there are a lot of musicians out there today that can not only play better than Bill Monroe, they play licks that Monroe couldn't even dare attempt.

    Saying that Bill Monroe is the best simply because he came up with Bluegrass music is like saying that the Model A is a better car than todays models, because Henry Ford designed it. Bill was the pioneer of Bluegrass music, his life's work has been an inspiration to many. I fully respect his abilities and his talent, his music is what many of us learned from. He deserves a spot at the top for sure, but in my opinion, he's not the best ever.

    As a matter of fact, It would be hard for me to pick "The Best". I have several nominations, and all my nominees are limited to Bluegrass, simply because that's all I know.

    Ronnie McCoury, Sam Bush, Chris Thile, Adam Steffey, Alan Bibey, Wayne Benson and Ricky Skaggs.

    All these are excellent musicians, and I would almost bet that they were all inspired to some degree by Bill Monroe.

    Just my Opinion, hh

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    "All these are excellent musicians, and I would almost bet that they were all inspired to some degree by Bill Monroe."

    Going out on a limb there, aren't you hh??

    Welcome to the Café!...

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    I still digin monroe here! Here now try to get into some Bill Monroe, man.


    you know I'm listening to bluegrass on the net. ALOT of it sounds the same. It sure is hard to come up with a bluegrass style that is unique today. Lots of " Doodlly doodly doodaly do" on the mandolin, whinning dobro, bluesey banjo licks, and common voices. Yeah LOTS OF EM CAN PUT MORE NOTES IN A SONG no doubt there, BUT what's the point? Gets to be like who can play the video game the best. It makes me be pretty introspective about what I'm doin playing the mandolin. Playin and singing someone elses songs. Bill Monroe IS the best. the rest are just chasing His dream...

  25. #50
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    One other perspective on Mr. Bill...Mike Compton seems to regard Monroe's playing from more of a blues perspective. To me, that really sums up the emotion and to large extent the sonic vocabulary (how do ya like that one!) I hear in Monroe's music. Just think of him playing in the context of a Robert Johnson or Muddy Waters. It starts to take on a whole new meaning.

    Now don't even get me starting on his concept of time.
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