Wiens Loar?

[AW Meyer]

I don't know if this one has been previously discussed at the Cafe, but I came across this add while I was browsing at the Folkway Music site:
http://www.folkwaymusic.com/new-inst...-loar-f5-1012/

[Marty Jacobson]

A 2009 lawsuit Loar? I didn't know anyone was still doing that. Definitely a gorgeous homage to the master, from a master.

[MikeEdgerton]

Jamie Wiens and his instruments have been extensively discussed on the cafe. Take a swing through these threads.

[Marty Jacobson]

Crap, I hate to find out about stuff like this.

[f5loar]

I couldn't find where this particluar Fake Loar had beend discussed here before. Is there a particular thread about this one?

[George R. Lane]

If I had the loot, I would jump on this one right now.
f5loar - I believe they are referring to his past problems with completion time and a very unhappy customer.

[Mike Black]

I couldn't find where this particluar Fake Loar had beend discussed here before.

Ditto.

[Mike Bunting]

If I had the loot, I would jump on this one right now.
f5loar - I believe they are referring to his past problems with completion time and a very unhappy customer.

A lot more than one.

[f5loar]

So it appears this fake copy of a real Loar was being carefully assembled in 2009 for someone while others had to wait in line. It is rare you hear of a direct copy of a Loar in 2009. Most luthiers today would not dare do such a thing without some big bucks involved and a closed lip about the project. And now it shows up for sale only 3 years later. Something not right. Hopefully Mr. Wiens can comment here about this one. Price is between a MM and a DMM. So why not just get one of those and have the real deal?

[sgarrity]

That's weird. Really weird

[OldGus]

So it appears this fake copy of a real Loar....

Wouldn't you have to alter an original to make a fake copy? I'm mad. Is there a Wienzi in this Loar?

[George R. Lane]

I have a question. A friend of mine bought a brand name mandolin and cut out the makers name and put an authentic Gibson logo. Would Gibson come after this person for having a fake Gibson?

[Marty Jacobson]

I have a question. A friend of mine bought a brand name mandolin and cut out the makers name and put an authentic Gibson logo. Would Gibson come after this person for having a fake Gibson?

They wouldn't like it, but doing that for your own personal use is not worth the expense of litigation (unless they're just trying to make a stink, as in the RIAA debacle a few years back). If you're not trying to sell them in such a way that confuses the consumer, it's not usually a problem.

You can also put an Escalade grille on your Chevy truck. (Please don't.)

[dcoventry]

Price is between a MM and a DMM. So why not just get one of those and have the real deal?

I have to say this:

Maybe the buyer wanted something better than they could get from Gibson?

I now duck, cover and ask for understanding.

[Mike Snyder]

No, you didn't.

[Marc Berman]

I have to say this:

Maybe the buyer wanted something better than they could get from Gibson?

I now duck, cover and ask for understanding.

So he bought an exact copy of a Gibson?

[Bigtuna]

I would buy it, but I'm sure I would get a lot of grief for scooping the fingerboard of my Loar.

[Ron McMillan]

Mr Wiens reportedly makes exquisite mandolins. Why he'd waste his time making a detailed fake is beyond my comprehension (though of course maybe it came down to money). Why anyone would want to own it, instead of an F5 with the Wiens name on it, is also beyond me.

Sacrilegious suggestions that it might be even as good as a modern day Gibson aside, I bet it's a beauty. If I was in the market and had the money and could get one with Wiens name on it, I'd be interested. The man's business failings might be legendary, but his reputation as a builder is still right up there.

[f5loar]

I am almost certain that Elderly Inst. got in some serious trouble with the Gibson Co. a few years ago for selling Fake Gibson banjos even though they were so noted in the description as being copies. To me this dealer is doing the same thing and if I were Gibson I'd be having the corporate lawyers making their first phone call to that dealer. Now to the price. If it is an exact copy and the price is the same as a Gibson would that not indicate Gibson's prices are correct if an independant builder makes an exact copy and has to charge the same amount?

[scgc.om]

What I really want to know is: What does it sound like! The Folkway ad speaks volumes re: the appearance BUT what I need to know is what does it sound like!!

Anyone here played this mandolin??

[Ivan Kelsall]

From what i've gleaned over the years re.'fake/repro.' instruments, is that it's only illegal if you try to pass off the fake/repro.instrument as the real thing. I'm fairly certain that as long as folk are aware (especially if you're selling it) that it is a fake/repro.',you're ok. However - applying a name or trade mark &/or motif that's registered to a company,i believe is illegal. So yes,JW could make an exact repro.of a Gibson Loar as long as he doesn't put the Gibson name on it & doesn't apply fake Gibson/ Loar stickers to it,which could be a cause for litigation,
Ivan

[Fretbear]

Very interesting.......

[Tavy]

From what i've gleaned over the years re.'fake/repro.' instruments, is that it's only illegal if you try to pass off the fake/repro.instrument as the real thing. I'm fairly certain that as long as folk are aware (especially if you're selling it) that it is a fake/repro.',you're ok. However - applying a name or trade mark &/or motif that's registered to a company,i believe is illegal. So yes,JW could make an exact repro.of a Gibson Loar as long as he doesn't put the Gibson name on it & doesn't apply fake Gibson/ Loar stickers to it,which could be a cause for litigation,
Ivan

Right, but how long ago was the original made? You could argue I guess, that the logos used on the original Loar's are no longer in copyright, but IANAL.

BTW I don't believe we can "blame" Jamie for this - if a customer asks you to make a copy of something for his/her own private use, that's perfectly legitimate. A typical example that often happens is the customer has an antique whatever that's too precious/fragile to use so gets a copy made for everyday use, thus keeping the original safe. The problem occurs when the customer wants to sell... and also slightly unusual in this case in that the manufacturer of the antique instrument is still around to complain.

One other comment: the ad goes to great lengths to explain how the original graduations were copied exactly... but given the inherent variability between wood samples, that's not actually the right thing to do if you want a sound-alike instrument?

[Spruce]

So yes,JW could make an exact repro.of a Gibson Loar as long as he doesn't put the Gibson name on it & doesn't apply fake Gibson/ Loar stickers to it,which could be a cause for litigation....

...which is exactly what JW has apparently done...?

if a customer asks you to make a copy of something for his/her own private use, that's perfectly legitimate.

I don't think so, if money changes hands...

I was going to do this same thing a few years ago with a Loar A5 copy, but make sure that the mandolin never hit the open market so as to not wake the sleeping giant...
I hear rumblings already...

[yankees1]

How about all the thousands of violins made in the late 19th century that had the Stradivarius labels on the inside ? I also would love to play/hear the Wiens Loar !