Tabs vs music notation

[jorgey]

Hello all,


Being new to the mandolin, I didn't know about the tabs, and never got into them when I was learning guitar.

I can read music and have been practicing picking irish tunes using sheet music to get familiar with moving around the fret, but I see alot of music(on this site) in tab notation.

My question: Is this something I should switch over to, from an emphasis standpoint? Is there an inherent benefit to tabs if I can already read music or stick to notation?

thanks,
Jorgey

[John Kelly]

If you are a reader, I'd say there is no need for you to start using tabs. Tabs are to show non-readers where to put their fingers to get the notes, and from what you say you already are quite capable of doing this. my dislike of tabs is that they show you ONE way of placing your fingers but as you know there are many alternative fingerings can be used; tabs also tend not to show note values, though there are some tab writers who do show the value of the notes as well as their position.
Standard Notation has the advantage that any reader can use it, irrespective of the instrument he/she is playing - you can share the same sheet of music among your guitar, mandolin and fiddle colleagues, which you cannot do with tab, which has to be written for a specific instrument and tuning.

Now wait for the others' responses!

[jorgey]

Thanks, John. So, I'm a Reader......it sounds so.....X-Files. Does the government know I'm a Reader? Just kidding...Thanks for the response. I didn't know if there was something unique to mandolins that tabs help with. I am amazed how quickly I can memorize a song, once I learn the music--seems the muscle memory kicks in fast.

[Grommet]

I agree with John in theory because notation does have the potential to give more complete information. However, you are likely to find resources that present tune info you want in either notation, tab, or abc format. Since you already read notation it should take very little time to reserach how to use the other two. Don't forget to try the TabLedit software (free download) which does a great job of reading/playing tabs and notation, and even allows importing of abc text files and converts them to tab and notation (though the latter function requires paying the fee to register the software).

Scott

[jmp]

No reason to "switch" to using tabs instead. Tabs don't represent things like rhythm very well but are useful to refer to for figuring out fingerings and voicings. You will have little problem learning tab notation.

[Chip Booth]

Tablature provides information about specific fingering, which notation often does not provide. It can, but rarely does in my experience. This is not important on a piano or a flute, but on a stringed instrument where the same note exists in multiple places across the fingerboard choosing the right fingering can be tricky at times.

Should you learn tab? It's up to you. You may not find it that useful depending on what you play, but you also aren't likely to find it difficult to learn.

[neil argonaut]

Tablature provides information about specific fingering, which notation often does not provide. It can, but rarely does in my experience. This is not important on a piano or a flute, but on a stringed instrument where the same note exists in multiple places across the fingerboard choosing the right fingering can be tricky at times.

Should you learn tab? It's up to you. You may not find it that useful depending on what you play, but you also aren't likely to find it difficult to learn.

In saying that, tab rarely tells you what finger to use, normally just what fret to put it on. It can have which finger to use, but so can normal notation. Although a lot of the time which finger to use is obvious once you know what fret it's at, it isn't always, especially to a beginner.

[Perry]

Is there even a learning curve to TAB? Just put your finger where it says. On the free resources on this site and many others you'll find mostly TAB. Any commercial sheet music geared to the mandolin will have both so take your pick. I find sight reading to be mush easier with standard then TAB. TAB may be helpful when playing in third and fourth positions.

Good luck!

[Kevin Stevens]

Usually you hear from people who know tab but not standard. I am one of those that learned tab and now trying to master standard. If I was you I wouldn't spend much time other than tab basics, as a standard reader you should find it incredibly easy. But not much need for it if you a proficient standard notation reader.

[AlanN]

I me mine...I mean, I dig both!

[jorgey]

Thank you all for the feedback! I've been studying TAB and have downloaded the Tabledit software. If I use, it is yet to be seen.

thanks again!

[Bob Buckingham]

I often read the music and if there is tab the student often reads that. Then they want to know why I played it a bit differently, and that I tell them is the difference between tab and music. Often the only difference is note location but sometimes it is timing too.

[ralph johansson]

Hello all,


Being new to the mandolin, I didn't know about the tabs, and never got into them when I was learning guitar.

I can read music and have been practicing picking irish tunes using sheet music to get familiar with moving around the fret, but I see alot of music(on this site) in tab notation.

My question: Is this something I should switch over to, from an emphasis standpoint? Is there an inherent benefit to tabs if I can already read music or stick to notation?

thanks,
Jorgey

vs. ??? You're not going to unlearn standard are you? Contrary to what some people say, there's a steep learning curve to fluency in TAB and it's not really worth the effort. Often TAB is published along with notation and in these cases a very quick glance at the TAB might suggest what position to play a certain phrase. However, there is no official TAB committee or TAB fairy who decides on the optimal way to finger and phrase a tune - in fact many TABs are poorly conceived, e.g., suggesting open strings where using the 7th fret would work much better. How exactly to phrase and finger is for you to decide - it's part of the fun.

[neil argonaut]

Contrary to what some people say, there's a steep learning curve to fluency in TAB and it's not really worth the effort.

While I agree with the rest of the post about deciding the fingering, got to disagree with this - maybe some people find it hard to learn, but in my experience, it took more or less no time to learn, as it seems (to me, anyway) intuitive and obvious from the start. I can't ever remember trying to "learn" it, it just tells you what string to play and at what fret, and that's it.

[Randi Gormley]

fwiw, I've always read standard notation and I find tab difficult to read at any speed at all; I can look at it and see what it says, but my mind is much much faster playing music with standard than trying to read the tab. I took a workshop where we were given most of the music in standard (no problem) but one piece was in ABC and I simply couldn't do the translation from page to fingers. I had to sit down and figure it out slowly. I've been fortunate in playing long enough to be able to pick up tunes reasonably quickly by ear so only having tab (or ABC) hasn't kept me from playing with non-standard-reading friends.

It's interesting to note that there is tab and ABC and solfeg and other systems, but it's generally said that standard notation is the biggest umbrella, and that the other systems, if they're all you know, have limitations standard notation doesn't. No real reason to move backward to a more restrictive method, I'm thinking. My 2 cents.

[Jordan Ramsey]

I was a notation reader my whole life on both piano as a child, and trumpet in grade school through college. When I started playing the mando around age 20, I immediately gravitated toward notation... didn't want the tab, had no use for it, thought it was primitive and stupid. Couple years later I started taking lessons with Jack Tottle and learning McReynolds' style crosspicking. Ultimately, the tab became a much more efficient tool than notation for learning that style, hands down. Very standard crosspicking example... second space A notated on the 12th fret on the D string. With notation you would have to read two things, second space A note, plus a roman numeral III above the staff. With tab, I only have to look at one thing, 12 on the D. Couple years later, I discovered and immediately ordered one of the coolest books on the planet... Dave Peters' Masters of the Mandolin. After waiting a week or whatever for shipping from Elderly and getting myself all psyched up to dig into these amazing solos from my heroes, I open the book to find that it was ONLY in tablature. I was disappointed to say the least, but it ultimately turned out to be really good for me. Because I wanted that material so bad, I dug in and got over my hangups with tab. Then later the Statman Jesse McReynolds book, which is only in tab, etc., etc.... Between the crosspicking and spending hundreds of hours with various "tab only" books, my tab chops are as quick as my notation reading abilities, and it's only been a help to be proficient in both (when both are available, I find myself sight reading tab lines as much as notation lines). No need to learn tab if you can read notation, but it never hurts to understand different ways to communicate (especially if you're doing any teaching.... tab is much easier for beginners to grasp immediately, and much easier to shorthand than notation, YMMV).

[oneeyeross]

as a sorta fiddle player, I would say stay with notation. Fingering for mandolin is like fiddle music, and properly notated is no more difficult than tab...and the richness of notation provides more information (at least to my poor brain) than tab does.

[August Watters]

This is one of those perennial conversations, and it's usually rife with misunderstandings. Learn both, then you can compare.

[ralph johansson]

While I agree with the rest of the post about deciding the fingering, got to disagree with this - maybe some people find it hard to learn, but in my experience, it took more or less no time to learn, as it seems (to me, anyway) intuitive and obvious from the start. I can't ever remember trying to "learn" it, it just tells you what string to play and at what fret, and that's it.

Fluency in notation means the ability to look at the score, and forming a mental
(or even aural) image of the piece before you put your fingers anywhere - seeing its range, its melodic, harmonic and rhythmic structure, recurring motifs, motivic variations, relative proximity to the given tonality, etc. etc. etc. And it took you no time to achieve this in relation to TAB?

[ralph johansson]

I was a notation reader my whole life on both piano as a child, and trumpet in grade school through college. When I started playing the mando around age 20, I immediately gravitated toward notation... didn't want the tab, had no use for it, thought it was primitive and stupid. Couple years later I started taking lessons with Jack Tottle and learning McReynolds' style crosspicking. Ultimately, the tab became a much more efficient tool than notation for learning that style, hands down. Very standard crosspicking example... second space A notated on the 12th fret on the D string. With notation you would have to read two things, second space A note, plus a roman numeral III above the staff. With tab, I only have to look at one thing, 12 on the D. Couple years later, I discovered and immediately ordered one of the coolest books on the planet... Dave Peters' Masters of the Mandolin. After waiting a week or whatever for shipping from Elderly and getting myself all psyched up to dig into these amazing solos from my heroes, I open the book to find that it was ONLY in tablature. I was disappointed to say the least, but it ultimately turned out to be really good for me. Because I wanted that material so bad, I dug in and got over my hangups with tab. Then later the Statman Jesse McReynolds book, which is only in tab, etc., etc.... Between the crosspicking and spending hundreds of hours with various "tab only" books, my tab chops are as quick as my notation reading abilities, and it's only been a help to be proficient in both (when both are available, I find myself sight reading tab lines as much as notation lines). No need to learn tab if you can read notation, but it never hurts to understand different ways to communicate (especially if you're doing any teaching.... tab is much easier for beginners to grasp immediately, and much easier to shorthand than notation, YMMV).

Crosspicking, McReynolds. That's Bluegrass, a strictly no-notation genre of music. I don't crosspick on the mandolin; on the guitar I might throw in a couple of crosspicked segments in high positions (no open strings) which of course would present no problems in notation. I can't help but wonder why anyone would want full scores of crosspicked solos. What you need is the melody and a few ideas about which patterns to use, which strings to leave open (for a mildly dissonant effect); three or four diagrams should suffice to convey these principles. Maybe it's a generational thing. I was into Bluegrass in the late 60's; I, or my fellow players, never used notation of any kind. The only sources for material were records. We could slow the LP's down to half speed; we could also slow down EP's, but then had to transpose back a fifth or fourth, I forget which. I recall wanting to assimilate some of Monroe's blues language. I transcribed the first four (unaccompanied) bars of BG pt. 1 and immediately absorbed two contrasting principles: harmonic (playing from the chord) and modal (superimposing a blues or minor penta scale over the chord).That was all I needed, then I was on my own; some extensive experimenting with the two approaches helped me form my blues style on the mando.

[Pasha Alden]

Hi I fear I share the same problem, am familiar with standard music notation for violin, piano, etc, but the tab thing. I also have a blind friend who wishes to learn mando. The trouble is tab does not transcribe easily into braille as the blind person, like sighted musicians among each other cannot have the same musical info such as note values, etc. So I share that frustration. Out of interest, is there any standard notation for mandolin? Anyone know?

[neil argonaut]

Fluency in notation means the ability to look at the score, and forming a mental
(or even aural) image of the piece before you put your fingers anywhere - seeing its range, its melodic, harmonic and rhythmic structure, recurring motifs, motivic variations, relative proximity to the given tonality, etc. etc. etc. And it took you no time to achieve this in relation to TAB?

What I meant was, it takes no time to learn how it works and understand it, unlike standard notation. The stuff you're on about, I'd more call general musical ability and knowledge, rather than fluency in understanding the notation (to use an analogy, someone can be a fluent reader but not be able to recognise recurring themes in a novel, or understand things the author is trying to imply); and I think that one of the drawbacks of tab is is isn't suited particularly to this kind of learning, and more a matter of just telling you where to put your finger.

[Randi Gormley]

Vannilla -- Do you mean music written specifically for the mandolin? Munier and Callace come to mind in the classical genre.

[fatt-dad]

tabedit files let you "show" the tab rendition or the standard notion rendition. If you can read, just forgo the tab view and select the standard notation view. . . or view both at the same time if you want.

f-d

[Perry]

Also the very simple yet great thing about standard is that it visually depicts when notes go up or down. Yet another reason I find sight reading standard much easier.