"New" July 9 Loar out of the woodwork

[JFDilmando]

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/62714

Does anyone have the background story on this one?

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Not really, John, only that it's been at Elderly's for at least 3 years, I would guess.

[JFDilmando]

That's how with it I am. Sometimes I wonder if I really am awake or not. Thanks for letting me down easy Henry.

[f5loar]

I think you meant newly "relisted". It is the one Loar to have if you are going to pay full price for one today. Not a better one out there. Something about those July 9ths that came from the same trees as Monroe's is pretty special. I've picked on quite a few from that batch and all were just super Loars. A batch unlike any other.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

215 grand; it seems to be on sale, used to be 250, a while ago. Here is some information I found: http://http://www.infinityluthiers.c...g/archives/336

[JFDilmando]

Tom I must say I have to agree with you as far as. The 9 Jules are concerned....I have played a lot on the 9 July fern lately, and it is one of the best that I have played..... Though I must say that from my experience the feb 18 batch is one of the best with my ears anyway

[Ken Waltham]

Henry, that link does not work for me.
Ken

[btrott]

There was a missing colon in the link, here is a working version, http://www.infinityluthiers.com/blog/archives/336

[JAK]

The writer on this link states, "Unfortunately the sound, that vintage F5 sound I was expecting to hear was just not there. It was slightly lacking in overall volume, the lows were muddly and the mid to highs were, well, lacking volume." Is this typical? Seems like others who have purchased a Loar had a better opinion of what they played before they bought it? I know unplayed mandos are not as open as those that are, but the player of the Loar in the article was disappointed. It's a lot of $ to fork out with the hope of the mando opening up, even though it is a Loar, unless you are just a collector and not a player. Just my two cents worth....

[f5loar]

A lot does have to do with whom is picking it. Not everyone would be considered a pro picker. It's not going to blow the bark off the tree if you hit "Mary Had A little Lamb" with a medium soft pick. How does it do under pressure with say "Rawhide" in the correct speed. I don't know this guy Chris but he don't look like a heavy hitter to me. It was his first one and didn't have much to compare it too. Is this typical? I'd say there are far more happy campers with Loars than not.

[brunello97]

Still, there is an awful lot of music between MHaLL and an old TV western theme music. (That is the "Rawhide" y'all are talking about, right? )

Kind of a strange blog article from Chris Oliver. I enjoy the photos but this one-paragraph rap on the sound quality doesn't build much confidence in the reviewer. It sounds a bit silly.

"Don't try to understand 'em, just throw, rope and brand 'em."

Mick

[grassrootphilosopher]

So Chris Oliver made a negative statement in his blog about the sound of #73984 (http://www.infinityluthiers.com/blog/archives/336). First of all: So what.

But since we are talking about
a. an icon mandolin (Loar, Bill Monroe Batch)
b. serious money, that hardly an averate person is able to put out in order to buy this mandolin (envy alert)
I am tempted to throuw my 2 cents in the ring.

I make my point from my very limited experience with 20ies Gibson F-5 mandolins, my not so limited experience with high end luthiers mandolins (among others F-5 Gilchrists old and new, Nugget, post 2000 MM Gibson F-5s), crosschecking my experience with that of other people that I find credible and a portion of scepticism and probably comon sense.

Up front, I do not know who Chris Oliver is. I do not know if he has or has had access to more than the one Lloyd Loar F-5 #73984 . That makes me want to take his statement with a grain of salt as I do not know if he knows what kind of vintage sound to expect. The "expert argument" does not hold in a scientific discussion, but I´d take F5-Loar´s, Evan Reilley´s, Lynn Dudenbostel´s, and other´s statements concerning the sound of said F-5 over that of Chris Oliver any day until proven wrong. Also his experience with the mandolin was at the IBMA 2010. It is not said in the blog but I may induce that the blog author´s experience was at the tradeshow. This environment in itself is not helpful for any evaluation of an instrument´s sound.

My experience with a Lloyd Loar mandolin was sheer initial disapointment when I first picked it. It was set up great and very easy to pick, but to my mind the sound was tinny and not loud at all, yada, yada, blah, blah.
My mind blew when the owner of the Lloyd Loar (a pro musician) picked up my Duff F-5 (which he thinks is a very good one) and we played both mandolins back to back. My, my ... His F-5 sounded like everything, mine like nothing at all. The disapointment changed to a disapointment about my instrument and awe towards the Lloyd Loar F-5. It took weeks to get my hearing readjusted. (By the way, I´ll prefer my Duff over many of the older Gilchrists - 90ies and earlier - and over many other instruments I´ve played, Vandens, Stivers, Gibsons etc.; it´s a great instrument that I´m very happy with).

The sound of the Lloyd Loar is not in your face, you hear it in your head. The notes are muscular, stringy, not voluptuous like many modern instruments. There are overtones but not like guitar overtones. You have to pick this kind of instrument very carefully. It does not take kindly when you play sloppy. Attack, precision, drive all come out especially bad if you are not acustomed to such an instrument (listen to the different Stan Jay videos on Mando bros. website concerning the 20ies F-5s and you may get what I mean).

So it could be that Chris Oliver just heard subjectively wrong because he was not accustomed to a 20ies F-5 sound (like me pre Loar). It could be that he had no sound reference (acoustics of the room were bad probably). It could be that he just did not play good enough.

With that said, I´d like to know if anybody here has played #73984. What were your impressions?

[danb]

Yes, that one was documented by Elderly in July 2009. I agree that it looks like a very nice one.

I'm with Tom, it's very hard to take one person's review of any musical instrument without a grain of salt.

It's easy to say "I didn't sound like Bill Monroe on this mandolin" and hide the fact that you use a different grip, pick type, technique, set-up, and other musical idiosyncracies than Bill did.

It's an injustice to the player to attribute all their tone to an instrument, just as it's an injustice to say the instrument has nothing to do with a player's sound. Both are factors, and many people dismiss one of them!

[tree]

I played this mandolin at Elderly in 2010 when we were visiting the inlaws for Thanksgiving and were in Ann Arbor for the entire week.

I'm not a Loar owner and likely never will be, but I do follow a lot of Loar minutia here and was curious to see what it was about. Elderly, to their credit, allowed me to play the mandolin as long as I wanted to in one of their practice rooms downstairs, and I spent 45 minutes or more with this one.

It was a joy to play, but after 2 years I cannot remember any very specific impressions about the sound - other than it sounded great to me. I own and play a F5G, which I like very much. My memory of the Loar is that it was a little more complex (whatever that means) than my F5G, which can sound a little "boxy" (whatever that means) sometimes. I do remember the relative volume/strength of each string pair was very even across the entire range. I probably didn't play much above the 15th fret, though.

My overall impression was that this is a fine mandolin. It is a better instrument than the one I own and like very much - but not nearly as much as the difference in cost between the 2 instruments. Given my economic status, that is how I have to look at the mandolin.

However, if I had that kind of disposable cash, I'd take that mandolin off the market without looking back. Mojo in spades!

[RCarrier73988]

I haven't played the Loar in question; but last year, I did play three different Loar instruments. two F5 mandolins, and an H5 Mandola. One of the mandolins was an April 1923, and the other was a 1924 fern. The Mandola was also a 1924 fern. I am probably not going to "afford" a Loar at today's prices anytime soon. I was lucky enough 25 years ago, to own no. 84684, which was probably a 1927 fern, but I sold it, and have been sorry ever since. That was as close to a Loar as I guess I'll ever get.

The thing I've noticed about Loar mandolins, is that I have never seen any two that had the same sound. They were all excellent instruments, but mandolins are like people, there are no two alike. But there is a deep dark melancholy sound in the bases, and a bell like sound in the treble strings, that is unique to other mandolins, although I have seen some other mandolins that sounded very close.

[f5loar]

I know exactly what you are saying in no two alike yet they all seem to have a certain "quality" about them seldom if ever found in other mandolins. The Ferns also seem this way. By the way your old 84684 used to be called a 1927 Fern but since Joe Spann's book came out last year it is now called an early 1929 Fern.

[Eric Hanson]

FWIW
I am not a great player by any means. I am likely an advanced beginner at best. I though did get the opportunity to play this mandolin, there at Elderly's.
What I do remember clearly is that there was a '44 Martin D-28 Herringbone that a man was playing right next to me. I muddled through "Old Joe Clark" the best I could at the time. He chimed in and accompanied me. I recorded the quick impromptu jam. Result?
The July 9, '23 out-shined the D-28 in volume for sure. About all I could hear was the mandolin, with a little bit of guitar in the background.
That being said, I also was privileged enough to play a '27 Fern that was also in stock. It was even louder. Odd as it was.
But I will say that this Loar was the first I was ever able to play, and it had that certain something that a Loar has, and nothing else does. It was just yearning to be played in the way that it fit my left hand. My fingers gracefully wrapped around the neck and onto the fretboard. Forming the chords and notes with ease.
A fine opportunity it was indeed.

[RCarrier73988]

Thanks Tom, for the update on my "29" Fern. I had some doubts about that myself, as I have seen others described with lower serial numbers and later dates. The "quality" you spoke of is similar to the differences in a "real Stradivarius," and a master made copy. You can copy a Loar, but I have yet to see the copy that was indistinguishable from the original.