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Thread: Breathing While Playing

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    Registered User mandrian's Avatar
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    Default Breathing While Playing

    I've noticed that when I play, that my breathing becomes somewhat heavier and less regular. I noticed this when recording my playing and my partner has also commented on it. I'm healthy and not overweight and my posture is ok. It also happens all the time so I don't think it is a stress thing.

    Have other folks experienced this and what are your thoughts? I'm keen to improve my playing and wonder if this is indicative of something that may be holding me back. Perhaps a strange question, but I thought that I would ask.

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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    I see the same when looking at my own videos. You also can, for instance, hear pro guitar player Ana Vidovic's heavy and irregular breath in this video.

    Playing is an athletic thing, and as such it is supposed to affect breathing. Take a break when you see a bright light and hear dead relatives beckon
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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    my remedy: sing or hum your line while playing, silently or whatever suits you. That makes you relax and breathe along your phrasing. Like playing a wind instrument.

    Another thing would be meditation, very close to playing an instrument.

    Some day I noticed that I was holding my breath for minutes when things got complicated. Totally concentrating. Once you become aware of a habit you can work on it.

    Maybe your partner will like your singing so you get the vocal part.

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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    I wouldn't even give it another thought. Breathing and blinking are involuntary unless you make it an issue; which at that point becomes a problem. That's just the way you play.

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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    Bertram is right, playing is an athletic activity in certain ways. Breathing is important in many physical activities, and playing (especially for an audience) is very physical. Two things I know of that can help with breathing are yoga and tai chi. Breathing is an integral component to both of those activities and they can help you to bring breathing to a place where it won't adversely affect your playing (if you feel that it is affecting your playing). Both are fairly meditative activities, and so is playing, so I can see a connection that could be helpful. It can also help to calm your mind some, which will help with concentration on the playing.

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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    Well breathing in a controlled way helps you relax. And being relaxed when you play is incredibly important. So controling your breathing while you play is important. Breathing as if you are singing in one way to do it. As WJ already said. In a fiddle tune with the flow of the tune, rests if there are any, at the end of lines. Breathing is involuntary true ...and I have never seen anybody pass out playing a break, but I have seen a lot of folks hold their breath and tense up and that won't help. So... Zen it is... float through your breaks and improvizations .... breathing evenly ...ooooooommmmmmm in the key of D........ Luck R/
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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by JCook View Post
    ...It can also help to calm your mind some, which will help with concentration on the playing.
    That concentration angle is probably the most important here. Some think that concentration means thinking with maximum power (picture: beads of sweat on your brow, teeth clenched, etc.) - they are oh-so-wrong; the kind of concentration needed for playing is a relaxed state, not thinking is what to aim for, and that's where breathing comes in. Breathing calms thinking, and thinking can block breathing.

    Therefore, uneven breathing during playing can be an indicator of too much thinking, i.e. concentration of the wrong kind. Which means that both Ana Vidovich and I still have to work on our mindsets to improve our playing further. Not that I am putting myself in the same category with a master player - I am just saying that this is a perfectly normal human challenge everybody can accept.

    So - it's not your breathing you should observe while playing, it's your thinking. What helps me is this two-step approach:
    - no words: absolute silence in your mind
    - no pictures: white fog around your mind
    Last edited by Bertram Henze; Jan-09-2013 at 9:54am.
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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    I've alerted the moderators to the above posts that violate forum policy. Zen, tai chi and yoga are religious practices. If I said "read the Bible and pray in Jesus' name", the post wouldn't last a minute. Let's see how fast THIS stays online ...

    <Inappropriate comments removed by Moderator>
    Last edited by Ted Eschliman; Jan-09-2013 at 10:37am. Reason: Posting Guidelines

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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    If I said "read the Bible and pray in Jesus' name", the post wouldn't last a minute. Let's see how fast THIS stays online ...
    Not really useful advice regarding "breathing while playing," and a poor analogy, as well. Why don't you tell us what the Bible says about breathing while performing physical activity?
    Bobby Bill

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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    <Inappropriate comments removed by Moderator>
    Last edited by Ted Eschliman; Jan-09-2013 at 10:35am. Reason: Posting Guidelines

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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    <inappropriate comment removed.>

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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by UsuallyPickin View Post
    I have never seen anybody pass out playing a break, but I have seen a lot of folks hold their breath and tense up and that won't help.
    True and true. Trying to hold your own breath until you pass out is normally prevented by very strong automatic switches on a basic level inaccessable to voluntary action. Where I get that tensing-up, however, sometimes is not when playing but when working: after eight hours of programming and testing, sometimes my voice is high & hoarse (not to say high & lonesome) at the end of the day, telling me I've breathed to little.
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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    Frankly, I think breathing is overrated. There's no empircal evidence that it improves your playing and only contributes to sustaining life.

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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    The OP has raised a very interesting & important point re.playing any musical instrument (IMHO). To function properly during any excercise,we need to breathe freely,easily & regularly.I have a problem with these things myself when practicing. I find myself taking deeper breaths & tending to hold them rather than breathing in a regular manner.When i do this,it contributes to me tensing up & it does affect my playing because i'm then concentrating more on 'trying' to breathe properly than i am on my playing. I've found this to affect me more when i'm practicing new tunes on my own. When i'm picking along to a piece of music from either Radio or CD,it doesn't happen.I've come to realise that for me,i need to practice my breathing every bit as much as my playing when learning new tunes - easier said than done,
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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    I've come to realise that for me,i need to practice my breathing every bit as much as my playing when learning new tunes - easier said than done
    Wonder if that is somehow connected to the fact that I can't talk while playing.
    Also wonder if wind instrument players would laugh at this thread...
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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    I was an athlete in college and during practice the coach would interject "Breathe" and everyone was required to take a breath. The idea was to practice breathing so you wouldn't hold your breath during a live performance. As silly as it sounds, it's true. I found out the hard way b/c I refused to breath in practice then forgot to breath during my big moment and it cost me. So during your practicing focus on good steady breaths and even say out loud "Breath!" until it becomes a habit. I guarantee it makes a difference.
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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    Good breathing will definitely give you better stamina. I used to have good stamina when doing the bike part of a triathlon but rubbish stamina when running. I broke the running beats into chunks which I tied into my breathing and the stamina improved to a comprable level with my cycling. In that case I was doing two small intakes followed by two small outflows of breath on the left right rythm. So L/in R/in L/out R/out and it really worked. I think it was the running which showed it up because of the impact caused by each step, and wonder if it couldn't be similarly useful in playing strummed instruments. Others too, we certainly had a few lessons and reminders on breathing when I was learning cello.

    Maybe experiment with having in breath bars and out breath bars to force you to do longer relaxed breaths. You may find it also helps with the overall phrasing of the music too.
    Also I've noticed in many pics and videos on here that there can be a tendency for players to close up the chest area and lean over the diaphram area when playing a small instrument like the mandolin. Lean back more, open out those shoulders, head up and face the world and fill the chest cavity nice and slowly before you start. Think of an opera singer about to deliver an aria, that should set you up right to begin.
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    Thumbs up Re: Breathing While Playing

    Breathing and moving softly the head are involuntary corporal expressions associated to feelings when you play intensively a song.

    In Brazilian choromusic style, the performance pleasures are converted into "emotional" musical notes and involuntary body motions during the musician performance.

    Similarly to WJ opnion, I thinks it seems convinient to breathe along with the melody phrasing. This action could improve your interaction with your personal performance.

    Musical Regards

    Carlos Gomes SJK-SP

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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    Wonder if that is somehow connected to the fact that I can't talk while playing.
    This is an issue for me, as well. When I am teaching a new tune to pickers, calling out the changes is troublesome whilst playing at the same time. I'd much prefer to hold up fingers (1,4,5, etc.) but that can't be done, as both hands are busy.

    Breathing I don't even think about.

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by bertram henze View Post
    wonder if that is somehow connected to the fact that i can't talk while playing.
    Also wonder if wind instrument players would laugh at this thread...
    Oh, maybe not outright laughter, but at least a chuckle or two.

    I've been trying to learn Irish flute for about a year now, and learning how to tame and focus one's breathing is the first big hurdle to overcome. There is the physical side of learning to tighten your embouchure so you don't over-blow and pass out (which is much more difficult on flute than on instruments like whistle or clarinet that have back-pressure). There is the fact that your breathing can be used (optionally) as a part of the rhythmic pulse in the music. And then the intellectual side, where you have to make decisions about where to breath during a tune. Irish trad is usually an unbroken string of notes, and it's not always best to breath right at the bar or section breaks. So you have to figure out which note to sacrifice while you breathe. It takes a while to get to the point where all that stuff is automatic and you don't think about it, and you can just concentrate on the music instead. I'm not there yet, but it's slowly improving...

    For a mandolin player, there may be some benefit to thinking about your breathing if it's actually causing a problem... like you find yourself holding your breath too often. But for me, it's just on autonomic/autopilot and I don't worry about it. Too many other things to think about, especially when there isn't that very tight link between breathing and expression like there is on the flute.

    It would be nice to think that all that focus on breathing when playing flute would somehow translate to improving my mandolin playing, especially since I play many of the same tunes now on mandolin and flute. But I don't think it works like that. What does translate, is learning about how ornamentation fits into the music.... not that you can directly transfer the ornaments, but at least thinking about where they go, and why they're there.

    P.S. I have trouble talking while playing instrumental music on mandolin or guitar too. But I wonder if that's just a skill that can be developed, if you really need it. I've noticed that fiddlers who area also teachers seem to have little trouble carrying on conversations while playing. It may be that they just get a lot of practice doing that while giving lessons.

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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    I too am unable to talk intelligibly/intelligently while playing any instrument. That inability would certainly preclude singing while playing, as well, if I had a singing voice worth using (which in my case is a moot point). But regarding speaking, I became actually conscious of the difficulty for the first time when I was much younger, and a teacher who was giving a master class encouraged the attendees to answer his questions while continuing to play whatever they were playing. I could barely manage "yes" or "no" answers, and was chagrined to see that certain others in the class were capable of sustaining full conversations, without skipping a beat. I have repeatedly tried in various ways to develop the skill, but to no avail. Either I can get out some understandable words but my playing deteriorates immediately, or i can keep playing accurately but the "words" that come out of my mouth (despite my "hearing" what I want to say in my mind), are complete gibberish. It's as though both actions are occupying the same brain cells, which can only process one action successfully at a time, or something. I wish I knew how to re-route them, and envy those people who can do both things simultaneously.

    Thankfully, I have no breathing issues, though.

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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    Hi there

    Must say I do not experience that. Do you experience some stress to play perfectly? Or are you simply concentrating harder?

    I only experienced change in breathing when playing wood wind instruments, e.g. when playing the oeboe I constantly went into hyperventilate mode - my teacher had to stop that quickly for reasons that would be apparent. <smile>

    Best of luck and sure the breathing will become regular again.

    Best

    Vanillamandolin

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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    Agree with the singing bit. I found that when I went through a particularly tough time playing my omnichord (closest thing to something with strings that is not a guitar or mandolin), I relaxed more and it was an outlet for emotion.

    Perhaps the breathing is an expression of intense concentration. When I acted in a play during the Grahamstown Arts Festival last year, I had to concentrate harder on my part and tended to perse my lips when acting silently as I concentrated on getting all the actions of the character right.

    I then had to concentrate on not byting my lip. <smile>

    The lip persing did stop and all were happy with my performance.

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    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

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  30. #25

    Default Re: Breathing While Playing

    bratsche wrote
    It's as though both actions are occupying the same brain cells, which can only process one action successfully at a time, or something.
    the right brain = music, creativity
    the left brain =language logic critical thinking numbers reasoning

    (http://psychology.about.com/od/cogni...ight-brain.htm)

    Beanzy wrote
    Also I've noticed in many pics and videos on here that there can be a tendency for players to close up the chest area and lean over the diaphram area when playing a small instrument like the mandolin. Lean back more, open out those shoulders, head up and face the world and fill the chest cavity nice and slowly before you start. Think of an opera singer about to deliver an aria, that should set you up right to begin.


    But the result is amazing.

    When I noticed that I was holding my breath I also noticed that I was totally tense. Concentration was affected and so was my playing. I had to do something about it.

    Maybe this topic is also related to stage fright.

    Making music is a kind of meditation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation

    To meditate means to be able to focus on something, and to become unaware of everything else around you or worrying you, to be able to let go. One does not require to sit in a lotus posure. One can walk, run, ride the bike, play an instrument and meditate.

    Actually consciously breathing is the crucial point when meditating and a daily exercise.

    What you want to achieve is awareness with regard to activities , to live in the present moment, to live in the present action = walking, runnning, mountaineering, biking, painting, playing an instrument.

    Beanzy wrote
    I used to have good stamina when doing the bike part of a triathlon but rubbish stamina when running. I broke the running beats into chunks which I tied into my breathing and the stamina improved to a comprable level with my cycling.
    At one time I was running 50 km a week, training for marathon. After the marathon I attended a some training course " running properly". They told me to change this, and that, and do this...
    Result was that my running got worse and injuries like muscle tension increased. Sometimes it is better not to change a running system. It may not be perfect, but it works.

    If irregular breathing or holding your breath works for you- fine.

    When people have no difficulties, fine, congratulations. Just play and enjoy.
    Last edited by Werner Jaekel; Jan-10-2013 at 3:34pm.

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