"Dark" old-time tunes?

[gauze]

someone asked me today what are some "dark" old-time tunes. I guess Soldiers Joy is kinda dark thematically, I didn't really have any answers for her. Clue me in

[EggerRidgeBoy]

someone asked me today what are some "dark" old-time tunes. I guess Soldiers Joy is kinda dark thematically, I didn't really have any answers for her. Clue me in

Did she mean old-time tunes with dark lyrics? (which I guess would be old-time songs). When I think of "dark tunes", I usually don't think of lyrics or subject matter, but tunes with a dark, haunting sound to them. And that to me generally means "modal" tunes like Cold Frosty Morning, Elzic's Farewell, The Cuckoo, Falls of Richmond, etc. Of course, some of those modal tunes do have lyrics, many of which tend to be rather dark - Pretty Polly, Little Sadie, etc. (Among old-time songs, dark subject matter often seems to mean "innocent girl gets murdered".)

[Sid Simpson]

May not be what you are looking for, but many old songs are pretty dark thematically - Banks of the Ohio, Omie Wise, House Carpenter, Frankie and Johnny, St. James Infirmary, Barbara Allen, Dark as a Dungeion, etc. Many are known as "murder ballads".

Of course, some folks make a distinction between songs (have words) and tunes (no words). In which case, many are in minor keys or modes with a bit darker feeling.

[JeffD]

Hog-Eyed Man

Knoxville Girl

Mary of the Wild Moor

Katie Dear

Awful Dreadful Snake

Long Black Vail

Lorena


Thats just without thinking too much. I could go on and on. and on.

[Paul Kotapish]

Plenty of songs with dark (scary, violent, creepy) subject matter, but those are often set to rather jaunty, cheerful tunes.

Most of the old-time instrumental tunes (fiddle or banjo melodies without words) that have a mournful, edgy, "dark" feel fall into the "modal" variety as suggested by EggerRidgeBoy, above, and the preponderance seem to be in A mixolydian, dorian, or aeolian--with some tunes slipping between modes in the two parts--or even within a part (a C natural and C#, for example).

In addition to the examples already cited, there is a pretty good thread with more tunes here.

I'm not aware of many trad old-time tunes in straight minor keys, but there are some more contemporary bluegrass instrumental favorites like "Jerusalem Ridge" that are more clearly minor and definitely dark sounding.

For a virtually unlimited supply of dark-sounding tunes (and songs), head east, with your first stop in Ireland.

[Jim Nollman]

Where I live, when a musician describes a tune as "dark", it refers to a minor key.

[Randy Smith]

Where I live, when a musician describes a tune as "dark", it refers to a minor key.

Thanks for posting the article, Jim.

To Café members: (NFI) Jim's new cd,*The New Old Time*, will make a great Xmas gift for yourself or any mandolin player.

R.S.

[Dan Krhla]

+1 minor key

[mrmando]

O Death

[Charles E.]

Any thing by Doc Boggs.

[allenhopkins]

...Long Black Vail...

I think that one's about a terrible skiing accident...?

[Charles E.]

Yep, involving Sonny Bono.

[Jim Garber]

I find it strange that someone posts a question which requires some explanation, we all ask what exactly he means, then he doesn't check the thread he starts. Gauze, come on back!

[Carleton Page]

Down in the willow garden is one with dark subject matter.

[gauze]

I find it strange that someone posts a question which requires some explanation, we all ask what exactly he means, then he doesn't check the thread he starts. Gauze, come on back!

yeah sorry I left about an hour later and drove 650 miles to ohio and then my laptop wouldn't work on the wifi when I got here, borrowing a laptop right now.

I think Murder Ballads is a pretty good starting point I didn't mean minor key specifically.
I guess some songs about floods and stuff would be considered kinda dark.

Doc Boggs is definitely dark, I kinda lumped him in with delta blues stuff just because of how he plays and the themes but I am not sure of the boundaries of "Old Time" exactly.

Long Black Veil is played as an old time tune? I know the Johnny Cash version ...

[John Ritchhart]

Two Sisters. Lord Randall, how far back do you want to go?

[pefjr]

Here you can cry or you can laugh:

[JeffD]

I have been playing "All's Quiet on the Potomac". The tune is really pretty, and major, but the words and the story are very sad, but told in a kind of Ambrose Bierce ironic way. The net effect is chilling.

[Shanachie]

Here's a previous thread with a ton of good murder ballad suggestions.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...murder+ballads

I like Down in the Willow Garden. Pretty dark. There's an AZ string band called Pick and Holler with a female singer who does a really nice job on that one.

[rico mando]

Danny Boy