Does anyone have info on this mandolin?

[bootinz]

I bought this many years ago on eBay. it was a total flyer but it turned out to be a real find. it is a one piece maple back, maple sides and neck, wide grained spruce top, beautiful binding work, and it sounds really good. no labels, no stamps no identifying marks at all yet it is superbly crafted. Does anyone know anything about this or have ideas? Thanks!

Kevin

[bootinz]

[bootinz]

sorry for the unsteady hand, i'm not very good at using the iphone camera

[mrmando]

Wow, gotta love those coffee-colored arrow-ends. You usually see those on Gibsons from the snakehead era.

There were a small group of luthiers in and around New York, starting in the '20s or thereabouts, who had been trained to make traditional Italian bowlbacks but started experimenting with other designs. John D'Angelico is the most famous of these, but there were a few others. This is unlikely to be a D'Angelico, but judging from appearances I'd say this instrument fits in with the aesthetic embraced by those luthiers. The tuners say 1924 unless someone knows about a later batch.

[Jim Garber]

Very cool, Kevin. I assume there are no markings on or in it? Have you looked under the top for any signatures?

This doesn't ring any bells in my empty head. I have to looks around and see what resembles this in terms of craftsmanship and style.

[MikeEdgerton]

The inlay looks like standard off the shelf type stuff but the mandolin certainly doesn't. That thing is beautiful.

[Jim Garber]

After a quick look the maker that looks sort of the closest in terms of style is Gaetano Puntolillo of NJ, who made Majestic banjos and also built some mandolins and guitars. This mandolin bears some resemblance but, of course, this is not conclusive. Headstock is different, I know.

[mrmando]

Puntolillo is definitely one of the guys I was thinking of. R.A. Mango is another, although I agree that the Puntolillo looks closer to bootinz's instrument:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?85914

[Jim Garber]

The few RA Mango mandolins (mangolins?) look like Martins. The only Philip Interdonati non-bowlback mandolin I have seen was also a copy of a Martin. Porayko (Canadian) was one I looked at also, but his headstocks are graceless. What is striking here is the workmanship as far as I can tell from the photos. I have a feeling this person built a lot of instruments but not mandolins. Prob guitars or possible violins. There are prob hundreds of violin makers, so unless it is someone who was prominent, or we find one more similar, we may never know for sure.

[mrmando]

Porrazzo is another of this ilk. Some decent-looking archtop guitars. The only mandolin of his we've seen, however, is a fancy bowlback.

[MikeEdgerton]

I found the thread with the Puntolillio and the Mango when I was looking to see where I knew those fretboard inlays from. I know I've seen that fretboard here before.

[David Newton]

Joseph Bohmann made some of those that looked like they were blown up like a baloon.
I don't think this is one of his, but similar.

[Jim Garber]

Porrazzo is another of this ilk. Some decent-looking archtop guitars. The only mandolin of his we've seen, however, is a fancy bowlback.

Yes, I forgot about him. I have only seen maybe one guitar -- from the Fisch collection on Top Shelf site, I think? itr is no longer there but i prob downloaded the pics.

[Jim Garber]

Joseph Bohmann made some of those that looked like they were blown up like a baloon.
I don't think this is one of his, but similar.

Bohmann's always look basically sloppy.

[bootinz]

thanks you guys,
i know there is nothing definite but i appreciate the knowledge. there are absolutely no identifying marks inside or out. i would have thought whoever made it would've been proud to put their name on it somewhere. of course, may be there was a label at some point but there is no sign of one ever being in there.
did i mention it sounds fantastic? it had no bridge when i got it so a luthier friend made the bridge. i'm guessing the original was adjustable.

thanks again!

kevin

[MikeEdgerton]

I thought about Bohmann with regards to the inlay but I never saw a Bohmann that was this nice (as Jim mentioned, they always look a little sloppy), even though he was the world's greatest musical instrument maker.

[allenhopkins]

I'd consider sending the pics to Stan Jay at Mandolin Brothers and see if he's seen one like it. That shop has probably handled more mandos by the NYCity Italian luthiers than anyone else currently dealing.

[Marty Jacobson]

That is a very cool mandolin! Looks like it might be a pressed top from here. That might help narrow it down, if you can determined whether that's the case or not. The way to check would be to get a Hacklinger or Magic Probe in there and see if the top is a consistent thickness, or if it is variable thickness.

[Texas]

Elias Howe?

Several images of Elias Howe mandolins can be found that appear close to this...

[Jim Garber]

I'd consider sending the pics to Stan Jay at Mandolin Brothers and see if he's seen one like it. That shop has probably handled more mandos by the NYCity Italian luthiers than anyone else currently dealing.

BTW no one really narrowed it down to Italian luthiers or New York City. Martin just was adding his hunch:

There were a small group of luthiers in and around New York, starting in the '20s or thereabouts, who had been trained to make traditional Italian bowlbacks but started experimenting with other designs.

I would check in with many experts on this. Stan is knowledgeable but so is John Bernunzio and the other Stan (Werbin) of Elderly as well as George Gruhn. Marc Silber is certainly expert on NY Italian luthiers but there were lots of small shop luthiers out there, some mentioned above. I have two instruments made by Achilio Puccinelli and Italian immigrant who worked out of Chicago in the late 1920s-1930s. I am basing guesses on workmanship and structural similarities with this mandolin in question.

Elias Howe?

Several images of Elias Howe mandolins can be found that appear close to this...

Outer shape, maybe but this looks of very different contruction. This one looks like it has carved top and back whereas Howe-Orme instruments were bent tops in a cylinder fashion.

[bootinz]

Definitely carved top and back. John Bernunzio said he couldn't be sure based on the pics but that Schutt came to mind. i sent an email and pix to Majestic Guitars but haven't heard back. I'll ask the Stan's too. does anyone know how to get in touch with Fred Oster? I will check out the Pucinnelli mandos and also try to contact Mr Silber. Thanks again for all the input.

Kevin

[mrmando]

It doesn't look anything like a Shutt.

[Jim Garber]

does anyone know how to get in touch with Fred Oster?

Fred's email: VINTAGEFRED@aol.com

It doesn't look anything like a Shutt.

Agree. In fact, I am not sure that Schutt made any carved instruments. His look more like induced arch tops.

[Jim Garber]

I will check out the Pucinnelli mandos and also try to contact Mr Silber.

Marc Silber's site

Good luck on Puccinelli. AFAIK I have a guitar and a mandola and know of one more mandolin (doesn't look at all like yours BTW) and that is it. I know another will crop up one of these days but in checking around the insides of my two instruments, he stamped and signed and glued labels all over the place. That one might escape with no markings at all would be amazing.

[Jim Garber]

Thru the miracle of the Wayback Machine, I was able to get a pic of the Porazzo archtop guitar. Nothing too exciting -- it looks pretty conventional.