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Thread: scottish tunes question

  1. #51
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    An example of how I'd attempt to play a big 2/4 march and a pipe reel


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  3. #52
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    The Highland Schottishe type tempo - I love playing these, but fail to remember their names.
    They are played in a variety of different ways in Scotland, actually, all equally attractive.



    finally a couple of contemporary Scottish waltz compositions in the traditional idiom.


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  5. #53
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question


  6. #54
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Hi Kevin. The schottisches are J F Mackenzie Esq of Garrynahine by Pipe Major William Ross and Captain Horn.

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  8. #55

    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    what a thread...

    Whenever I think the forum has lost interest in this thread something grand is coming up.

    So happened with Jock, then a new little Niall, and now it is you, kmmando.

    THANK YOU !!!! Love it.

    The page shows a Sobell but it is not in the sales section.

    Well, the Sobell is a special instrument, but it does not play by itself.

    My KM 1000 does not have the full potential I am looking for. For tunes like Hectors Return, Highlanders Farewell, Gloom on my Soul or other slow tunes it lacks sustain and volume. I will go to Brighton in the near future for another.

    Would be nice to have the notation for the 2 Highland Schottisches and the waltzes. If I had a clue about their titles I could go searching.

    When posting I saw Nigels'. Thank you, Nigel.

    I have great interest in this collection by John MacColl. Who is the distributor ?

    May I download these files for my own use ?
    Last edited by Werner Jaekel; Dec-14-2012 at 3:59pm.

  9. #56

    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    X: 1
    T: J. F. Mackenzie Esq. of Garrynahine
    C: Pipe Major W. Ross
    R: strathspey
    B:
    Z: John Chambers <jc:trillian.mit.edu>
    N:
    M: C
    L: 1/8
    K: A
    A \
    | "A"{B}A2 c<B c<e e>f | {g}a>f e>c "D"f>e "E7"(3fga \
    | "A"{B}A2 c<B c<e f>e | "D"(3fga "E7"{ef}e>c "A"{B}A2 Aa |
    | "A"{B}A2 c<B "F#m"c<e e>f | "D"{g}a>f "A"e>c "Bm"f>e "E7"(3fga \
    | "A"{d}c2 e<c "Bm"B>c f>e | "D"(3fga "E7"{ef}e>c "A"{B}A2 AB |]
    [|"A"A<a a>e "D"f>a "(E7)"f>e | "A"c<e f>e "D"f<a "(E7)"f>e \
    | "A"A<a a>e "D"f<a "(E7)"f>e | "D"(3fga "E7"{ef}e>c "A"{B}A2 A>B |
    | "A"A<a a>e "D"f>a "(E7)"f>e | "A"c<e f>e "D"f<a "(E7)"f>e \
    | "A"{d}c2 e<c "Bm"B>c f>e | "D"(3fga "E7"{ef}e>c "A"{B}A2 A |]

    (This is one piece for learning abc notation. I want to learn this notation and I am thinking about opening a thread somewhere to exchange experience and knowledge. Or does it exist ? )

    X: 1
    T:Captain Horn
    M:C
    L:1/8
    Q:80
    C:Strathspey
    S:
    K:HP
    |: {g}e|
    {g}f3/2A/2{gAGAG}A2{g}B/2{d}G3/2{dc}d3/2e/2|
    {g}f3/2A/2{gAGAG}A2{g}B/2d3/2{gdG}d3/2e/2| !
    {g}f3/2A/2{gAGAG}A2{g}B/2{d}G3/2{gf}g2|
    {g}f/2a3/2{ef}e3/2d/2{g}B/2d3/2{gdG}d:| |:
    e| !
    {g}f2{gfg}f3/2d/2{g}f2{g}f/2a3/2|
    f2{gfg}f3/2d/2{g}e3/2f/2{ag}a2|
    f2{gfg}f3/2d/2{g}e3/2f/2{gf}g3/2e/2| !
    {ag}a3/2f/2{gef}e3/2d/2{g}B/2d3/2{gdG}d:|


    http://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=me...THORN.ABC/0000


    John MacColl tune collection:

    http://www.hendersongroupltd.com/car...?idproduct=896

    Is this the one, or is there another more recent one ?

    And one more question to the experts:

    tempo


    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/at...5&d=1328207822

    how about scottish tunes ?

    Would you apply same tempi ?

    What is the usual tempo for the bagpipes and which tempo would you apply to the mandolin ?
    Last edited by Werner Jaekel; Dec-14-2012 at 5:58pm.

  10. #57
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Quote Originally Posted by kmmando View Post
    I once bought a Gibson mandolin from that shop, actually.
    David A. Gordon

  11. #58
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    There's this thread on the Song-a-Week group featuring Leaving Glenurquhart with a rendition and ABC from John Kelly and an attempt of a rendition from myself, plus loads of happy discussion.

    P.S. just noticed that Werner is aware of that thread because he posted in it himself.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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  13. #59

    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    P.S. just noticed that Werner is aware of that thread because he posted in it himself.
    Yes, so is any member, including John, quite active there. Leaving Glenurquhart was presented by him. A great tune, one of my favourites.

    Different thread, different intentions.

    Again,my intention in this thread is to understand what is special and different about scottish music, and what to be aware of when playing scottish.

    It started with a transciption and a divergence in notation and execution. From there we came to modal scales and the ones used in scottish music.

    And my wish to delve into scottish standard notation to find more about that.

    Problems with learning by ear were brought up.

    The question aroused why the keys D G A are used in celtic predominatly. And if instruments used in celtic and their history have anything to do with this.

    Examples were presented, in abc and performance.

    Some comments made me aware that I should become familiar with abc notation to be able to share any tunes from the pipe tune books. For myself I would just scribble a bit, which I am doing presently.

    There are some specialities in abc notation with scottish.

    Kevin's videos are a perfect example how play scottish mandolin.

    I never expected so much attention for this thread.

    It shows that there is a certain demand for special threads like this one.

    We have a very big celtic music scene in Europe with a wonderful tradition. I like and play any genre. I also like all mando music from across the big pond. Very much so.

    But , honestly, I wished the celtic section would be a bit more activ here on this great forum. Especially the scottish.They have alot to offer.

    (We all know how strong and powerful it proved to be in history and time, with it's revival. Same happened in Ireland. )

    Go and visit the Edinburgh Tatoo. Completely booked, with masses flooding the city, from all over the world. Not only within the castle, but all over the place performances happening.

    I suppose Scot's intentions in creating a Forum: Celtic, U.K., Nordic, Quebecois, European Folk are pointing this way. To give each genre some space.
    Last edited by Werner Jaekel; Dec-15-2012 at 4:44am.

  14. #60
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Hi Werner, here's the second waltz that you were interested in.
    Hope this is of use - its named for my family crofthouse in Polbain, in Coigach, Lochbroom in the NW Highlands of Scotland.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #61
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Thanks for the tune names Nigel, I can't recall most of the names of tunes I know these days! Hundreds of tunes with The Occasionals and I recall about 5 names - the rest is done by nods winks grunts and spontaneous reaction to what Freeland is playing next! No actual names though!
    Trust all goes well with you. Kevin

  16. #62

    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Here's a pdf I had of the 2/4 March Kevin is playing in the video, in standard notation and mandolin tab.

    John MacColl's March To Kilbowie Cottage by P/M Willie Lawrie.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails John MacColl's March To Kilbowie Cottage (A).pdf  

  17. #63
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Thanks Werner glad you like those, as to speed, Kevin about nails it there with his video, 2/4's are often played together or more readily as the march (or marches) of the march strathspey & reel sets beloved of pipers.

    I'm not a piper so my singing of tunes isn't as disciplined as proper piping cantarach, so not really. But I've been around enough piping to have been exposed to quite a bit of it over the years. Singing of tunes helps to communicate them, over the phone or in person so similar to cantarach but more individual. Quite normal to be talking about a tune and have someone ask you to sing a bit of it. I suppose similar to irish diddling but borrowing more from cantarach.

    Then there's a huge body of gaelic song, such as "port a beul", mouth music, a significant part of the scots repertoire, the melodies of which, can be found preserved in the various song styles and traditions.

    Here's one I learned by singing;

    (Dots borrowed from the session.org)

    X: 1
    T: A Bhriogais Uallach
    R: three-two
    M: 3/2
    L: 1/8
    K: HP
    |:AAAB A2AB AGd2|deee c2Bc dcB2|deee A2AB AGd2|eAA2 (G2G)A BAA2:|
    |:aeee edde eeg2|gaaa f2ef gfe2|deAB GAAA Bde2|gAA2 (G2G)A BdA2):|

    Here's a link to the battlefield bands youtube release of a medley arranged around this song. The first part of this tune is traditional and I seem to remember that the Portree piping Doctor, Dr Angus MacDonald, a lochaber man originally, added the second. He also recorded it on his first solo album, A’ Sireadh Spors, great small tunes piping album

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj5Q_I6YAFU

    Different key and they don't repeat the parts in the singing of this as a port a beul, plus when Mike kicks in with the pipes they repeat only the first part, still using the vocal as the guide, by singing the melody along with the vocal it's quite an easy job to square the two and adapt the abc accordingly.

    I learned it from Dr Angus's album initially but didn't really do much with it, now I simply imagine the song when I play it and try and phrase it as though I were singing it, so learned through singing. Woks great on the mandolin but more common for me to be playing the banjo at the moment. Works with reels and a pal and I were using it after a couple of 3/4 marches to liven things up a little.

  18. #64
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Where in the NW are you John? Anywhere near Coigach?

  19. #65
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Quote Originally Posted by kmmando View Post
    I can't recall most of the names of tunes I know these days!
    I can relate. It is only just starting for me, but growing fast. I think it is a case of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle: the tune and its name can't be known within the same universe...
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  20. #66
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    I'm in south west ross Kevin.

  21. #67
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Perhaps our paths will cross up north sometime for a tune, you never know! regards, Kevin

  22. #68
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Hi all, and especially Werner, here is an upload to my SoundCloud page of a fine 6/8 march, "Mrs Lily Christie", by PM Donald Shaw Ramsay. Played on my octave, Werner, with some basic embellishments and acoustic guitar backing. Hope it somehow manages to sound Scottish!

    http://snd.sc/V3O9KX

  23. #69
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Nice one John, sounds richt Scottish to me! Well done! Its interesting that the longer scale length instruments are, to my mind, better suited to pipe music playing, as the sustain length on each note is greater than on the mandolin, and can be controlled to emphasise the dotted crochet/quaver that predominates in piping, creating the cut and snap of piping. Super, and one of your own custom made instruments as well - very impressive!
    regards, Kevin

  24. #70

    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Very nice, Kevin. Sounds just like my Sobell mandola's wee brother. Matchless instruments.

  25. #71
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    This one was made in 1983, £310! When was the mandola made? Cheers, Kevin

  26. #72

    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Quote Originally Posted by kmmando View Post
    This one was made in 1983, £310! When was the mandola made? Cheers, Kevin
    Around 1998, Kevin,* if I remember aright. About $1500, but don't quote me! I convinced Mrs. Sgriob by telling her it was a savings because I'd never need to by another instrument for the rest of my life. I lied, of course, but nothing I've bought since matches the Sobell. It may be me, but the sound has improved with age.

    I am still pining for one of Stefan's big body mandolins. I can't think of any other reason for buying a raffle ticket.

    (*Surely not Kevin MacLeod of Perthshire, expert fiddler and internationally famous wind-power expert?)

  27. #73
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    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    No, a different Kevin Macleod, and its been a while since I scraped a bow on a fiddle!
    The sobells are great. My brother in law has a fine late 70's mandolin withe the rings cedar and big body. Sounds wonderful.
    Cheers, kevin

  28. #74

    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    Thank you for generously sharing and answering my questions, everybody.. This is a great forum. Where would I be without it.

    Also to Kevin for sharing the videos via email.

    http://vimeo.com/53160635#
    Kevin, a bit enviously I followed this jig. I noticed this similar kind of playing to Luke Plumbs’.

    I opened a thread http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...68#post1116768

    I would very much appreciate if you could spare some time and contribute.

    Is a jig in Scotland played any differently as in Ireland ?

    Interesting threads by the way:
    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...n-session-2012

    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...uke-Plumb-2007

    Jocks information about "port a beul" and cantarach brought some memory to my mind, some LP vinyl from the 60 or 70 ties. In my mind I am hearing two voices singing. I know this is the tune but I can’t remember who it was.
    Maybe the Johnstons In “ The Jacobites by Name”. Not sure. I just thought of Dolores Keane, browsed the net and found this http://prostopleer.com/tracks/4922729eTTj Dolores Keane & John Faulkner "Mouth Music (Lilting)". Going through so many LP vinyls is a tedious job. Many I have digitalised, including 5hand Reel, one of my alltime favourites.

    I received the tune books and cds.
    The Seaforth Highlanders
    PM Donald MacLoed's Collection Book 1
    The Moidart Collection One and Two
    And two Pipedown cds.

    The man from the Bagpipes Galore shop marked these tunes in PM Donald MacLeod's collection.
    Colin's Cattle
    Thick lies the mist on yonder hill
    Mrs Mac Donald of Uig
    Lady Lever Park
    John Macmillan of Barra.
    Glasgow Police Pipers

    Does anone know this tune ?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyOoeQkCElo

    Good thing is that there are many reference tunes on http://www.pipetunes.ca/ in mp3.

    John, this sounds very scottish to me. Not surprisingly … "my maternal granny used to sing to me - she was a Cameron of Locheil "...( from soundcloud)…..) You have a nice collection on soundcloud by now. Very good.
    Where do you get all these interesting tunes from ? May I ask which tune books you are using ? Do you know the books mentioned? Do you have a favourite in any of those ?

  29. #75

    Default Re: scottish tunes question

    The tune on your Youtube clip is "The Trip To Modera" by the late, great Scottish piper Gordon Duncan. I've attached a pdf that I had tabbed out. Hope it's legible enough.

    Gordon Duncan wrote so many fantastic tunes, The Famous Baravan, The Soup Dragon, Jig O' Beer, The Sleeping Tune, Break Yer Bass Drone, Andy Renwick's Ferret, The Ramnee Ceilidh, The High Drive, Pipe Major Sandy Spence - to name but nine!

    Gordon tragically died in 2005 at the age of 41.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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