Snark tuners damaging finish

[multidon]

I know this has been discussed before, but based on the recommendations here and the many who sing the praises of the Snark tuners I have acquired 2 red ones form The Mandolin Store's Black Friday special, at 8.99 each. I think that was ridiculous for such a nice tuner, and I felt lucky to get them for that.

But on the subject of possible finish damage, which as I said has come up before, I found this in the Snark instruction sheet:

"Snark advises NOT (emphasis theirs) to use its tuner with any instruments having these types of finishes: Nitrocellulose Lacquer, Polyurethane, French Polish (scratches easily). These are some of the brands that currently or have used Nitrocellulose Lacquer finishes: Gibson, Gretsch, Taylor. These are some of the brands that have used or currently use Polyurethane finishes: Fender, Epiphone, Gretsch, Ibenez."

It seems funny to me that they are selling these clip on tuners with the clip/vibration sensor feature specifically to clip on a headstock (what other reason would there be for this feature?) and then say they recommend that you don't use it as it was designed. After all if you eliminate nitro, polyurethane, and shellac (French polish), that probably accounts for about 95 percent of all stringed instruments, doesn't it?

[shortymack]

Maybe if you left it attached for days they could do some damage but I've never had an issue with my snark on nitro and especially poly, which is actaully funny that they say it can damage. Poly would survive WW3.

[Jim]

I have all the listed finishes and have noticed no damage, sometimes leave tuner on for a few hours at a gig or jam. Take it off when I put it back in case or on wall hanger.

[PJ Doland]

I think that's just a CYA thing. They don't want to be legally liable for any damage the product may cause to somebody's **very** expensive vintage instrument.

[MikeEdgerton]

I think that's just a CYA thing. They don't want to be legally liable for any damage the product may cause to somebody's **very** expensive vintage instrument.

Yup.

[Texas]

Here is a post I made a few weeks ago regarding this subject. The company replied to my question regarding damaged finished which is located close to the bottom of the thread.

[Shelagh Moore]

I've not had a problem so far using Snarks on any of these finishes but do not leave my tuner permanently attached.

[sunburst]

It seems funny to me that they are selling these clip on tuners with the clip/vibration sensor feature specifically to clip on a headstock (what other reason would there be for this feature?) and then say they recommend that you don't use it as it was designed. After all if you eliminate nitro, polyurethane, and shellac (French polish), that probably accounts for about 95 percent of all stringed instruments, doesn't it?

It doesn't seem that strange to me. They designed the tuner to clip on, not even considering what the reaction with finishes might be, then they started getting reports that finishes have been damaged. The things are selling pretty well, and they're choices are; a) take them off of the market immediately out of concern for the finish on people's instruments, or b) have their lawyers draw up a disclaimer advising against using them on the finishes that have been reported damaged (CYA, as mentioned) and keep selling them.
Considering that their business model has more to do with selling than with protecting instrument finishes, they obviously chose "b".

I believe I'm already on record (in some ancient thread) wondering what the finishes on pegheads will look like in another 10 years or so, and also what guitar makers will do about their logos and "product placement" on TV when tunes cover up logos in the traditional position.

[Chip Booth]

I have marks on all of my instruments from clip on tuners. I have yet to use one of any brand one that won't leave a mark, especially on varnish finishes. It's just the price I pay for convenient tuning until someone comes up with something better.

Also, Snarks and every other clip on tuner I have tried except for one, the discontinued Korg AW-1, do not tune well. I can hear differences in tuning from one string to another, and make changes in pitch I can clearly hear that don't register on the tuner. If anyone wants to sell me their AW-1 cheap let me know, I have a stash of them.

[Texas]

It doesn't seem that strange to me. They designed the tuner to clip on, not even considering what the reaction with finishes might be, then they started getting reports that finishes have been damaged. The things are selling pretty well, and they're choices are; a) take them off of the market immediately out of concern for the finish on people's instruments, or b) have their lawyers draw up a disclaimer advising against using them on the finishes that have been reported damaged (CYA, as mentioned) and keep selling them.
Considering that their business model has more to do with selling than with protecting instrument finishes, they obviously chose "b".

I believe I'm already on record (in some ancient thread) wondering what the finishes on pegheads will look like in another 10 years or so, and also what guitar makers will do about their logos and "product placement" on TV when tunes cover up logos in the traditional position.

"They designed the tuner to clip on, not even considering what the reaction with finishes might be..."

Sorry to be disagreeable, but these companies are very aware of the resulting blemishes that may be caused by their design and I strongly suspect have modified design over time to make the problem less of a problem.

Now, let me really upset folks...Anyone—including me—that clips one of these tuners on their headstock thinking there will be no damage is just not thinking very well. That very question prompted me to use a cotton cloth between the clip and my new Loar headstock because I figured a blemish was bound to happen sooner or later which further prompted me to send a note to DeltaLab for their response and that response is located in the link above. They clearly state that damage may occur. I have since started using the tuner app on my iPhone, but still use the clip-on on an old beater that I am practicing with.

[sunburst]

Sorry to be disagreeable, but these companies are very aware of the resulting blemishes that may be caused by their design and I strongly suspect have modified design over time to make the problem less of a problem.

So you're saying they designed and marketed the clip knowing full well they would damage finishes? Why would they then modify the design over time if finish damage was intended in the first place?

[fiddler37]

I think that a VARNISH finish is the most delicate and probably should NOT have a tuner attached to it. There are ways to use a tuner without clamping on to the instrument.

[John McCoy]

Could they just come up with some other material, that won't damage finishes, to face the jaws of the clamp?

I know there are materials scientists here; maybe one of you knows of something.

[Gerard Dick]

The pads are made with variations of silicon plastic that has traction so the tuner doesn't slip around. It is similar to the plastic worms used in fishing. Not the same but sharing some attributes. One of those attributes is plasticizer to keep the plastic soft. That stuff also softens paint, lacquer, varnish, urethane...the list goes on. I have some blemishes on my Weber Yellowstone head stock courtesy of a korg tuner. Live and learn. Use it. Tune it. Don't park it there. Ditto for the capo if you play guitar. Park it in your pocket if it is a clamp on unit with the plastic pads.

[FL Dawg]

It works fine in mic mode next to the instrument. Or maybe someone could figure out how to replace the rubber traction strip with something vintage friendly. I'm not surprised that nitro & varnish don't stand up well to plastic chemicals.

[texaspaul]

One also damaged the gold foil on my Martin headstock.

[John McCoy]

Thanks, Gerard; that's a clear and convincing answer.

But now after thinking about it, I wonder whether it might work to attach the tuner to one of the tuning buttons. Obviously, this won't work for someone who wants to leave the tuner in place, and would require moving the tuner once if you're tuning the entire instrument. Are the tuner buttons more impervious to effects of the plasticizer?

[Marty Jacobson]

Makes me want to incorporate a "tuner tab" of uncoated aluminum or brass onto the back of the headstock of my instruments. Hmm....

[multidon]

Makes me want to incorporate a "tuner tab" of uncoated aluminum or brass onto the back of the headstock of my instruments. Hmm....

Now that's a stroke of genius! A real case of making lemonade out of lemons would be to embrace the problem and incorporating some kind of impervious substance into the headstock design. A real modern touch.

Another possibility is oiled wood. I was informed recently by Weber that they do not put finish on their inlayed ebony headstock veneers anymore but simply oil them. Can't see how the rubber could harm that.

[Bernie Daniel]

FWIW, I have had no problems at all with Snark tuners even if left for extended periods of time on various Gibson, Weber, Eastman, Martin, Kentucky or Epiphone instruments. Knock on wood.

[KSmith]

Interesting. I bought one about 2 weeks ago. Under the "Caution" heading, my instruction sheet states "Leaving the tuner attached permanently to the instrument for a long time period could cause marring of the finish. We recommend you remove the tuner from the instrument after you fisnish playing" Nothing more, nor the naming of specific instrument makers or finishes.

Has all the hallmarks of a "use commonsense" blurb to me. Nothing like the blurb on the back of my fly tying hooks - "found unsafe for human consumption in the state of California." That one was a head scratcher.

Maybe I'm using this thing wrong. I clip it on when I take the mando out of the case just to make sure everything is still in tune, and then put it away after all strings are checked. 2 minutes max.

Ken

[Texas]

Makes me want to incorporate a "tuner tab" of uncoated aluminum or brass onto the back of the headstock of my instruments. Hmm....

Excellent idea...

[Paul Merlo]

man, you guys had me scared about this one. I'm sure you'll be happy to know my Weber headstock is just fine and I don't see any signs of damage after over a year of use. I use a Snark tuner, then usually remove it immediately. My mando stays in tune very well, so I"m guessing total contact time has been less than 3 hours total since Sept, 2011.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I've used my Red Snark on both my mandolins - the Weber with a lacquer finish & the Lebeda with a varnish finish & there's no sign of any damage.I do however only use the Snark to tune up initially & then it's off,so it's only attached to the headstock for a couple of minutes at a time. I also use a couple of Intelli tuners & again,no damage.I suppose that knowing what we do re.Neoprene rubber
affecting some finishes,we should all be a bit cautious anyway,
Ivan

[Beanzy]

Makes me want to incorporate a "tuner tab" of uncoated aluminum or brass onto the back of the headstock of my instruments. Hmm....

Why not a swivel out tab behind the neck where it joins the body?. Could sell a wee clip on chord crib sheet / set list holder too. Oh and a coffee cup holder too, and a place for clipping the screen for You Tube lessons...... ok I think I can see where this is going.


But a wee fold of lint free cloth will be thin but put a barrier between the finish and the rubberised plastic. I've tried it and it's no poorer at tuning with it in there. I won't bother using it normally as I don't care about a bit of normal wear and tear on my cheapo.