Kentucky KM900, Did I expect too much?

[swinginmandolins]

I just recently bought a used KM900 due to recommendation on threads on this forum. I was hoping this mandolin would fill the gap left from me selling a great custom I had for financial reasons.
I'm beginning to wonder if I'm expecting too much or if I got a dud. I'm the third owner.
I'm wondering if raising my action will help. It's low but within reason low. What strings work best? I have 74's on now.
I know these are all things I can try and see, but sometimes a bit of feedback can make for at least a lifted spirit.
Just wondering too if it is what it is and I just wait patiently until I can hopefully upgrade....

[Don Grieser]

Hi Terry,

Sorry you had to sell your custom build. It's tough to get used to a new mandolin.

I have a KM-900 from 2009 (with the lighter burst) with a pickup in it that I use when I have to plug in. It sounds great plugged in. It sounds good unplugged, with a ton of the fundamental tone but without the complexity of overtones that you get with a higher end mandolin. That might be what you're missing.

You will need to dampen the strings between the tailpiece and the bridge, and between the nut and the tuners. Those 2 things make a big difference. I have the action set so a Proplec 1.5mm pick is a snug fit at the 12th fret on the E strings. I adjusted the truss rod to flatten out the board a bit too. I cut the fingerboard extension off of mine (if Sam did it why can't I?) and I like the tone better up by where the 22nd fret used to be without all that clicking.

All that said, I do think it sounds better than any sub $1K mandolin I've ever played. While it's no match for upper tier mandolins, it has a tonal quality that's perfectly good for playing on stage. I do think it sounds better from the listener's position than it does from the player's perspective. (Go play it in front of the mirror in the bathroom and see if that changes your mind.)

Hope that helps.

Don

[f5loar]

3rd owner on such a new model mandolin is not a good thing. Yes they are duds but there are those that just need a good pro set-up. J74s should get the job done but no harm in trying others like GHS PF279 or silk&steel. You do need a good medium height to make these little A's bark. You don't say what kind of custom you gave up or if it was an F or A model. If you give up a custom Gibson,Dudenbostel,Nugget,Red Diamond, Duff,Randy Wood,Gilchrist, etc. I can't see you being happy with a 900.

[swinginmandolins]

Don,
I have played it against the wall and it does have some good qualities. I think you are right about missing the complexities that were present in my Holst. Both Holsts I've had were great mandolins, but with a modern sound. I too flattened the board. My action is similar to yours. At least you stating that it's the best for under $1K will keep me from selling and possibly getting something way worse, unless this one is sub par.

F5Loar,
The custom was an asymmetrical 2 point Holst with modified sound holes. When you say medium action do you mean north of the action Don says his it at as mine is about the same as his, maybe some lower. Set up is better than other mandolins I have had. The original owner bought it from the mandolin store who does set up.


The tone has gotten some better since I got it. The action was extrememly low, and hardly any fret wear so I'm just wondering if it hasn't been played much. It gets real thin in the upper registers.

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

Terry - you didn't mention what you don't like about the KM900. Is to too quiet? Sound a bit tight? Has it had a set up recently? How about a CA bridge upgrade? There are a number of things you can try as you said. I've owned two KM900, and the first one I had sounded remarkably pedestrian when it arrived, but after a couple months playing it exclusively, it really came alive and sounded much better. And I agreed with Don that it sounds better than any of the sub-1K mandolin I've owned or played - including KM1000. I had mine strung up with J75s, which gave it a little bit more punch. I also had a CA bridge installed while I thought helped improve the sound of the E strings a bit.

I remember seeing your custom instrument on the classifieds a little while ago, and as someone who had also recently let go of a dream mandolin due to financial reasons, I can relate to the sense of loss that you may be experiencing. The KM900 won't fill that hole I'm afraid, but I do believe that it is a nice little instrument that would improve with more play time, and one that should tie you over for a bit until your next dream mando.

[swinginmandolins]

Terry - you didn't mention what you don't like about the KM900. Is to too quiet? Sound a bit tight? Has it had a set up recently? How about a CA bridge upgrade? There are a number of things you can try as you said. I've owned two KM900, and the first one I had sounded remarkably pedestrian when it arrived, but after a couple months playing it exclusively, it really came alive and sounded much better. And I agreed with Don that it sounds better than any of the sub-1K mandolin I've owned or played - including KM1000. I had mine strung up with J75s, which gave it a little bit more punch. I also had a CA bridge installed while I thought helped improve the sound of the E strings a bit.

I remember seeing your custom instrument on the classifieds a little while ago, and as someone who had also recently let go of a dream mandolin due to financial reasons, I can relate to the sense of loss that you may be experiencing. The KM900 won't fill that hole I'm afraid, but I do believe that it is a nice little instrument that would improve with more play time, and one that should tie you over for a bit until your next dream mando.

At this point the mandolin is sounding nasely and although better is still rather introverted and fairly quiet. I play up the neck quite a bit and it sounds thin. The bass is louder than the trebles, but the trebles have improved some.
That is why I'm wondering if going a bit higher on action might help even though I prefer it on the lower end but not extreme.

Setup seem fine. Intonation is good up the neck. I thought about possibly upgrading the bridge but right now budget won't allow.

I knew this wasn't going to fill what I lost but I was expecting a bit more...maybe too much.

[G. Fisher]

I've had 3 Km900's and they've all been good. Two of them were set-up and one I had to do a little adjustment to get it to sound just right. I still have two and have them set-up at 3/32 on the G and 2/32 on the E at the 12th fret. You should check the slots on the bridge to make sure there isn't any binding.

Is this the Km900 that PJ had in the classifieds a few weeks ago?

[evanreilly]

If you give up a custom Gibson,Dudenbostel,Nugget,Red Diamond, Duff,Randy Wood,Gilchrist, etc. I can't see you being happy with a 900.

I have a good selection of the above, as does F4Loar, and we both own KM-900s as well. Mine was used; F5Loar's is new. We both agree they (Kentucky 990s) are a great bang for the buck and have a sound above their price bracket!!!! And, as they say, YMMV.......

[William Smith]

Tweak it!,,I've never owned a 900 but a few 1000's,and after some set-up tweaks,,they do get better,some in playability.some in sound,some if your lucky in both,,
Heck every mandolin I've bought I've had to fix the action/setup etc...sometimesit takes a day to do it right!,Even a Gil F-5 I bought from a real reputable dealer needed some work!,,it shouldbe a crime to sell somethin that isn't set-up to optimal performance!,,but everyones different

[swinginmandolins]

I've had 3 Km900's and they've all been good. Two of them were set-up and one I had to do a little adjustment to get it to sound just right. I still have two and have them set-up at 3/32 on the G and 2/32 on the E at the 12th fret. You should check the slots on the bridge to make sure there isn't any binding.

Is this the Km900 that PJ had in the classifieds a few weeks ago?

Yes this was PJ's .

[swinginmandolins]

Thanks for the encouraging responses!
One thing too is it's been raining since I received the mandolin and then last owner was in NM not sure where it was before, but it just might be adjusting to the change in climate.
I raised the action last night, and had played it earlier in the day, and it did sound better. I will probably raise it more just to see. I have other strings to try as well.
I think too that lack of sustain is another quality I'm missing ,but isn't that par for a "Gibson" sounding mandolin?
Thinking back I was comparing the Kentucky to past mandolin and it is similar to the Gibson F9 I had if not better sounding. Then again it's hard to say as I have 6-8 more years playing experience and besides my memory and old recordings have no way to really compare.

[Willie Poole]

I tried installing a CA bridge on my KM-900 and it didn`t change a thing, the bridges that come on them I guess are as good as the CA`s...I bought mine from a fellow that played Celtic music and he said he sold it because it was too loud for that kind of music (I don`t know myself) but it has a great bluegrass sound and I play mine pretty regulary on shows...I will admit that it doen`t have much loudness up the neck on the A nd E strings but I don`t play way up the neck myself...

My advice is to try a different height setting on the strings, raise them a little at a time, and also try different strings and picks and hopefully you will hit the right combination...One thing that I will have changed on mine in the future is to have larger frets installed but not until it needs fret work, I can live with narrow frets but they are not my favorites...

I think in time you will find this to be one great mandolin, just keep playing it a give it a chance....

Willie

[samlyman]

Terry:

I have been looking for a 900 with a radiused fretboard so if this has one and you want to sell I'd be willing to take a chance on it - let me know by way of email: samsonlyman@gmail.com

Sam

[f5loar]

Didn't know they made a radius 900s. I've only seen the 1500 and it is a slight radius. All these suggestions are good ideas but there is a chance you did get a dog. I mean these are mass produced by people who never heard of Bill Monroe. Also I noticed your style is more Apollon/Burns/Grisman than Monroe and you do quite nice on those non-bluegrass numbers. But your Monroe songs are a bit "out there" from his standard deveations. You were use to that more modern sound and the 900 is more traditional Loar like. If you know other mandolin pickers in your area ask them to pick on for a bit to see what they think about it. A new bridge may be all you need or a nut adjustment.

[G. Fisher]

Terry:

I have been looking for a 900 with a radiused fretboard so if this has one and you want to sell I'd be willing to take a chance on it - let me know by way of email: samsonlyman@gmail.com

Sam

You won't find one unless someone put a radiused fingerboard on it. If they did put on a radiused fingerboard I would expect the price to be considerably higher than a standard KM900 to cover the cost of the fingerboard work.

[swinginmandolins]

Definitely no radius board.

I acknowledge this is a different sound. I'll just play the heck out of it and see what the future holds.
Thanks for all the insight and suggestion.

[pjlama]

This is the one I sold. As I said in the ad I only bought it for a trip. The only mandolin I own is my Stanley, I wasn't about to take it to Disneyland so I bought the KM900 a week before I left and sold it when I got home. I would not pass judement because its now a three owner mandolin. I think this is a good mandolin especially for the price. It could use a set-up and would really benefit from a CA bridge. I would reserve further judgement until that was done personally. I have never heard a mandolin that sounded good up the neck that didn't cost a pretty penny. It has a good traditional tone and good potential, my brief ownership was planned. I even let the guy I bought it from know that it would be back in the classifieds in under three weeks. I did think about keeping it but with another Stanley very, very close to being here I thought it best to stick to the plan.

[almeriastrings]

Unless you have an unusual example, I do not think a new bridge will make much difference. The bridges on the KM900, KM1000 and KM1500 are normally very good indeed. I have changed a couple to CA bridges, and like the above poster, could detect no difference whatsoever. FWIW, on my own I stuck with the original bridges and am quite happy with them. This is not the case with some other brands/models, but on these, that supplied bridge is far from junk.

Your Holst would be a very different sounding mandolin. These (KM900's) tend toward the traditional, dry, woody Gibson sound. Obviously, individual examples (as with any maker) vary... doubtless too, some are better than others, or just might suit you better than others. I would make any necessary adjustments and give it time to settle in. It is also certainly the case that the instrument's hydration status can make quite a difference to how they sound too, so worth checking that. Overall, I too have found the higher end KM's to be remarkably good, consistent mandolins. But.... they may not suit you or your style. Only time will tell.

[swinginmandolins]

Like I said in a previous post I don't think the set up is bad at all. The mandolin plays fine. it could use a fretboard leveling, but even that isn't bad at all with a low to medium action. The action was low to begin with but we all have different preferences. I think the mandolin has improved since I got it, and going from a dry climate to one with almost 100% humidity will take some time to adjust. It has stopped raining so much the past couple of days and the mandolin has been sounding better. If I was to make a snap judgement I wouldn't have even got this far as to start a thread to find out what other have done to make it a better instrument. Frankly first judgement was to put it in it's case and hope I could get my money back if I sold it. This in no way was anything against PJ. It was my opinion at first.
I agree that the bridge is not an issue. The Mandolin Store says they don't change it due to it being a quality bridge. That being confirmed twice in this thread. Raising the action has made the biggest and best improvement of the mandolin, which also could just be me playing 1 1/2 to 2 hours a night. The dry tone is the biggest hurdle for me coming from a mandolin with tons of overtones and sustain. I also understood the second owner PJ only bought it for a vacation mandolin, really should have left out that in my initial post as it wasn't that important to the discussion just something I mentioned, not thinking it to be a bad thing.
I respect the opinions and knowledge on this board and appreciate the comments and feedback.

[G. Fisher]

Have you checked the truss rod yet? Two of the three I've had didn't have the truss rod adjusted at all. The nut was loose and it took a few turns to be able to tell it was tightening the rod. I'd check that before looking into having any fretboard leveling done.

[swinginmandolins]

Have you checked the truss rod yet? Two of the three I've had didn't have the truss rod adjusted at all. The nut was loose and it took a few turns to be able to tell it was tightening the rod. I'd check that before looking into having any fretboard leveling done.

The truss rod works good on it. The leveling I mentioned would be to level up past the 15th fret where most imports and some other mandolin have a hump. Otherwise the board is able to be flattened or bowed however a person would want it. I like it fairly flat with a slight bow, which is set good for me on this mandolin. With the action adjustment I made last night the mandolin is sounding better. I'm a bit higher than 2/32 on the G's and E's. More balanced than it was, and I think it's settling in. It's sounding better up the neck. Either that or my ears are adjusting to the drier tone. I think alot of my discontentment could have been emotional too, as loosing a nice instrument is hard. I think I may have found issue with any mandolin. Just having some conversation helped alot.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Terry - Greg's idea re.a tiny tweak onthe truss rod might be a good idea. A couple of years back,i had my Weber Fern's truss rod adjusted to tighten it up to lower the action slightly. As it turned out,the adjustment that could be done was so tiny i thought that it was hardly worth it,however,a few days later,i took the mandolin from it's case for my daily practice & the volume had shot up like crazy !!. The sustain was better as well. Another Cafe member has also had the same thing happen to his Weber as well. Now this can't be ONLY true for Weber instruments,so i'd give it a try.Incidentally,Weber send out their mandolins with a virtually flat f/board.The scale length on a mandolin is so short, that 'relief' as per a guitar or banjo,isn't really required - so they told me.
From Terry - "I think alot of my discontentment could have been emotional too...". A nice bit of personal insight there Terry - i know exactly what you mean. I traded another Weber,an "A" style 'Beartooth' oval hole infor my 'used' Lebeda 'Special'. It was a superb mandolin,but flawed with a warped neck. The Lebeda looked superb & played superbly as well,but my initial reaction was a bit subdued.The Beartooth had been awesomely loud,the Lebeda far less so.However i played the dickens out of it for months & it slowly became the super mandolin it is right now.It's very dry,woody & has a heck of a chop to it.As i said in a recent post on 'opening up',i think that it's simply acclimatised (settled in),something you also mention in your post above. I think that your KM900 will do the same over time,
Ivan

[Grommet]

Terry-Let us hear some swang on that thang!

Scott

[Beanzy]

If I were in a similar situation I'd have the bridge off anyway and do a chalk test on the underside (same as you do when fitting the bridge) that way I'd know for sure there was no dimple under the treble side of the foot losing tone there). At least that way I'd have that one ticked off the list and could focus on the rest of the mandolin. Another issue may be if it's been a bit 'over engineered' in terms of bracing you may need to go for something even more meaty than the J74s to get the top under enough tension to make it come to life.

Best of luck with it all, not just the mandolin.

[Mandobar]

I have one of these that I got off Amazon last year at this time. It is miles from an eastman, but not anything like a Collings, or any other mandolin in my closet. That said, it is a good mandolin, but I've noticed that these all need tweeking to the set up. I was sorry to see you sell your Holst, Terry, but you do what you have to. It does take a bit to get used to the flat fretboard.