Tailpiece

[roysboy]

At the risk of sounding like a total newbie on the mandolin and the site ( well ..just over a year ) how big a factor to the sound of a mandolin is the choice of tailpiece and which ( reasonably priced ) tailpiece would some of our experts here recommend ? ..thanks all

[mandroid]

the sound comes from the string moving the bridge, sitting on the soundbox.
tailpiece is just an anchor for the End.

After you spend the money for a heavier cast machined tailpiece ,
(unscientific) the tendency is to swear it made an improvement.

I did a couple Upgrades , my rationalization, was easier string changes ,
not sound improvement.

[roysboy]

......so in your opinion ..the BRIDGE..would be the more significant upgrade sound-wise ?
maple ? ebony ? rosewood ?....thanks

the sound comes from the string moving the bridge, sitting on the soundbox.
tailpiece is just an anchor for the End.

After you spend the money for a heavier cast machined tailpiece ,
(unscientific) the tendency is to swear it made an improvement.

I did a couple Upgrades , my rationalization, was easier string changes ,
not sound improvement.

[mandroid]

IDK what you have that you feel compelled to change..

A Ford Falcon wont become a Shelby Mustang..

It's the top and soundbox resonance you hear as Tone..
maybe it is just too heavily built and so harder to wring volume and tone out of it.

If the mandolin you are learning to play the Music on is not satisfactory any more,
go shopping for a New Mandolin that satisfies you better..

resell yours to some one just starting out.

They, the mandolin fretboards, do have all the same notes on them.

[mandobassman]

I agree with Mandroid. It's for looks and easier string changing. I have replaced the tailpiece on two mandolins because I hate the Gibson-style two-piece tailpiece. Neither made any difference in sound. I have always believed that those who say they hear a difference feel the need to justify their purchase and convince themselves of the "improvement".

[Folkmusician.com]

I agree with Mandroid. While I like cast tailpieces, I do not feel they improve tone. Now changing strings or doing any additional setup work at the same time as changing the tailpiece, will change the tone.

Cast tailpieces will be in the $50-$150 range. The Ashton Bailey isn't bad at the lower price points, but it will not match standard screw holes. The Allen Tailpieces are nice.

In my opinion, the bridge is the single most important factor, aside from changing the body itself (re-graduating the top for instance). The thing here is that any improvement from a new bridge will be about 40% the bridge itself, and 60% the person fitting the bridge. Simply buying a nice bridge and sticking in your mandolin, does not necessarily translate into better tone. It may even be a downgrade if done poorly.

Ebony is usually the best choice for a bridge.

[Shelagh Moore]

I like cast tailpieces , like others here, for their aesthetics. I have changed standard tailpieces for cast or heavier ones on a number of instruments for their improved looks but have never noticed any real change in sound.

[Charles E.]

But, but, when I put an Allen tailpiece on my new mandolin, it clearly stated on the included information paper " improves volume, tone and sustain".

Seriously though, I do like the look of cast tailpices and the easier string changes. While I don't know if the tailpiece made an improvement in tone, it certainly did not hurt.

[fatt-dad]

I like the simple elegance of a 12-tang stamped tailpiece.

f-d

[roysboy]

.... thanks all .....you have all, for the mostpart , confirmed my suspicions on the supposed tone improvements opened up by switching to a cast tailpiece . And yes, the ease of string replacement and cleaner overall sound is a factor in my query . I play the Eastman MD 305 and except for the slight inconvenience of removing the tailpiece cover ( and the occasional rattle when it hasn't been seated properly) I have no qualms with the sound or the playability of this instrument thus far. In fact after nearly 5 months I am more impressed with this mandolin than I was the first time I played it . ...

[mandroid]

the little things in Set-up, precise foot fitting the bridge to the top, fret leveling ,
getting nut slotting to best accuracy , are a worthwhile outlay..

James Tailpiece was an improvement.. open hinged lid, hook loop over TP hook, close lid
and string loop stays where it should.

while you deal with the peg end of the thing.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I put an Allen t/piece on my first mandolin,a Michael Kelly 'Legacy',because the original 'tin' one was a hog to use. I suppose it may depend greatly on the quality of any particular mandolin,but i emphatically did notice an improvement in the instrument's sustain.Tone/volume wise,there was no discernable difference. My 2 favourite t/pieces are the Allen & James makes.However,unless i do a plug & re-drill on either of mine,it's a non-starter to fit either one,
Ivan

[Tavy]

I put an Allen t/piece on my first mandolin,a Michael Kelly 'Legacy',because the original 'tin' one was a hog to use. I suppose it may depend greatly on the quality of any particular mandolin,but i emphatically did notice an improvement in the instrument's sustain.

Generally speaking more mass at the string anchors == longer sustain (think electric solid body guitar).

However, you're likely to see a bigger improvement on a more flimsily made instrument than on a well made one IMO.

With regard to the best upgrades: strings, then setup, then bridge.

[8ch(pl)]

I agree that there is a certain thought toward justifying the purchase. Also, whenever a tailpiece gets changed, so do the strings. New strings will improve the sound in most cases. Maybe the tailpiece takes the credit for what the new strings accomplish.

[Beanzy]

I've just done the tuning machines (Schaller), bridge, strings and tailpiece (Allen) on my Kentucky KM160 and there's a big sustain gain from the tailpiece/bridge combo (which I did first) The tailpiece definitely added mostly to the sustain side of things as I strung it up to check, then did the bridge which really brought out a fuller tone. However I filled the old pin and screw holes then re-bored a new one, as the old one was slightly misaligned and annoyed me so there may be other factors at work here.

There's a really decent core to these mandolins which is a bit let down by the tailpiece and bridge on the original set up, they're not bad, just not getting the best out of the beastie.I think the old Gibson style one was soft and pulled down onto the top (killing some sustain/tone), whereas the Allen one launches off from the apex of the curve and doesn't interfere with the top at all, letting it vibrate freely.
It was pokey enough in jams before but it's very loud now, I mean really, really noticeably louder. (Should be interesting in orchestra practice at the weekend )

Another bonus is that the mandolin tunes really smoothly and stays in tune too thanks to the tuning machines.

Cost a few $ but saved on buying a new compromise mandolin before the money is saved for a proper upgrade. Probably given myself another year or so before I'll need to pull the trigger.

[8ch(pl)]

It is possible that a cast tailpiece, by being more rigid than a sheet metal one could hold some sustain in the instrument. I am not sure if there is any difference in the thickness of metal used in various manufacturers Gibson style units.

I have never much liked the Gibson Style tailpiece. That alone has led me to change them out on a couple of my instruments. My two Mid Missouris sport Weber Cast tailpieces

[mandroid]

Have not been aware, Do many of with those real '23 Loars
valued like a 4 Bedroom house in Marin County, change their Tailpieces ?

just curious..

[Beanzy]

People certainly do talk about 'original tailpiece' in adverts for the vintage Gibsons so the old ones must be getting swapped out.
But I think it's only going to matter if the individual tailpiece is poor in the first place. I reckon there was decent steel in use back then, not the tin of beans metal we get in many modern pressed tailpieces.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Beanzy - "not the tin of beans metal....". On my Michael Kelly,that would have been an up-grade !.The mandolin itself was fine,especially for the price,so why fit a totally c**p t/piece. Even cheaply made ones can still be good if well engineered & produced. Most of the production cost is the workers pay. It costs just as much to stamp out & press form a c**p one as it does a good one. The cost of the tooling would be the same, & that's recovered over 1,000s of items made. I think that swapping mandolin parts out on old instruments,is simply to fit parts that work better than the old,worn originals. Even if i was buying a Lloyd Loar mandolin,i'd want tuners & a tailpiece that were in good working order,the originals if possible,or high quality modern ones if not,
Ivan

[almeriastrings]

I reckon there was decent steel in use back then, not the tin of beans metal we get in many modern pressed tailpieces.

The current Gibson ones are very good - compared to the poorly plated, paper-thin, soft rubbish seen on a lot of cheaper instruments.

[Ron McMillan]

I have a James tailpiece on my Mix A4, and am a true convert. Formula-1-quality construction and design, and changing strings is a breeze compared to the pressed metal Gibson copies I was used to. I don't expect to be getting another mandolin custom made, but if I do, the James tailpiece will be the first design stipulation; and I might yet be tempted to change the tin one on my no-name F5, not in the expectation of better tone or sustain (I don't personally buy into those claims), but because the James models are works of art in themselves.

ron

[mandroid]

The current Gibson ones are very good

their Vendor that supplies them may be sustained by their customer , to not have to cut corners.

[cammtb]

I put an Allen t/piece on my first mandolin,a Michael Kelly 'Legacy',because the original 'tin' one was a hog to use. I suppose it may depend greatly on the quality of any particular mandolin,but i emphatically did notice an improvement in the instrument's sustain.Tone/volume wise,there was no discernable difference. My 2 favourite t/pieces are the Allen & James makes.However,unless i do a plug & re-drill on either of mine,it's a non-starter to fit either one,
Ivan

Hey Ivan,

Putting other parts of better quality can have a big influence on your sound.
I created a roller bridge, and instead of a normal tailpiece, I decided to create a whammy bar kit for my mandolin. Why not!!
I used high quality stainless steel for these products, and the sound of my mandolin increased immensely.
I’m satisfied with the sound. The mandolin sounds much louder (even without an amp), and it has a nice sustain.
This is because of adding mass to your instrument and the high density of the material.

Take care, Robert

[DougC]

Humm, need better sound? No mention of mandolin picks? OK I'll leave that for later. My peeve is a tailpiece that has a removable end button. It should be part of the tailpiece. Otherwise the strap can pull it out and your mandolin can take a dive towards disaster. I came really close one day and the mandolin still has a nasty scratch from the fall.

[mandroid]

You are battling Tradition.. tapered end pins came from Violin Making..

take a tight fitting end pin and glue it in, then Maybe cut it off and screw
in one of those
Guitar strap lock Buttons.

Others have a number of other Non Glue solutions , from the Years
of discussing the tapered end pin pull out problem, here.

of course the Jack/Button for Internal Pickup you clamp on either side
of the instrument End Block , wont be pulling out any time soon.