Instruments (as carry ons ) on airplanes

[mandroid]

Happened to be a copy of the Musician's Union Magazine,
in the VAMC Hospital lobby.. saw this in March 2012 issue
went to their website address
http://www.afm.org/news/the-afm-appl...ge-of-faa-bill
and copied this:
The AFM applauds the passage of the FAA Bill that sets a consistent national policy allowing musical instruments on airplanes

After five years and 23 short-term extensions, Congress has passed legislation reauthorizing the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for the next four years. Included in the bill are provisions that create a uniform national policy regarding musical instruments on airplanes. Any instrument that can be safely stored in the overhead compartment or underneath the seat may be brought on board as carry-on luggage. Additionally, the bill sets standard weight and size requirements for checked instruments, and permits musicians to purchase a seat for oversized instruments, such as cellos, that are too delicate to be checked. Existing law allowed each airline to set their own policy regarding musical instruments, and size requirements varied widely for both carry-on and checked baggage. The American Federation of Musicians (AFM) has been lobbying Congress to enact such a policy for nearly a decade.

"This is great news for professional musicians throughout the U.S. and Canada who carry the tools of our trade – our instruments – aboard commercial aircraft," said AFM President Ray Hair. "Ending the confusion over musical instruments as carry-on baggage has been a top legislative priority for nearly a decade. I am proud of our Government Relations Director, Hal Ponder and his assistant Laura Brigandi in our Washington legislative office for seeing the effort through. Musicians can now fly in friendlier skies."

The FAA reauthorization was passed by the House of Representatives on Friday, February 3 by a 248-169 vote. It subsequently passed the Senate on Monday, February 6, 75-20. The President is expected to sign the bill into law.

FYI
more info available to members , this was a public access search.

I suppose by searching the congressional record the actual bill's language is available.

[Clockwork John]

I like the idea of a standardized policy. I took a guitar as a "carry on" the last time I flew back from Colorado. It cost me an "extra bag" fee, but I carried it to the plane, and had it gate checked and hand carried to the plane with the strollers, car seats, and sports equipment. No hassle, no issues, and most importantly, no damage to the guitar or case.

[Mandolin Mick]

This is great news! But, I've never had a problem and always put my mandolin in the overhead.

[Mike Bunting]

But, I've never had a problem and always put my mandolin in the overhead.

Me too.

[mrmando]

It's good news, but if you read the fine print, the Secretary of Transportation has 2 years from the enactment of the bill (HR 658) to issue "final regulations" to carry out changes to the rules. Looks like enactment was Feb. 14, 2012. So I guess we need to find out whether "final regulations" have been issued.

Here is the applicable section of the bill:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...olWRY:e239800:

[Jim P.]

Here's the wording from bill HR 658 which was signed into law 2/14/2012

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statement by the Press Secretary on H.R. 588 and H.R. 658

On Tuesday, February 14, 2012, the President signed into law:
H.R. 588, which redesignates the Noxubee National Wildlife Refuge in Mississippi as the Sam D. Hamilton Noxubee National Wildlife Refuge; and
H.R. 658, the “FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012,” which authorizes budget resources for the Federal Aviation Administration through FY 2015 and encourages acceleration of the Next Generation Air Transportation System and air traffic control modernization.


Wording contained in bill H.R. 658

SEC. 403. MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS.
(a) In General- Subchapter I of chapter 417 is amended by adding at the end the following:
`Sec. 41724. Musical instruments
`(a) In General-
`(1) SMALL INSTRUMENTS AS CARRY-ON BAGGAGE- An air carrier providing air transportation shall permit a passenger to carry a violin, guitar, or other musical instrument in the aircraft cabin, without charging the passenger a fee in addition to any standard fee that carrier may require for comparable carry-on baggage, if--
`(A) the instrument can be stowed safely in a suitable baggage compartment in the aircraft cabin or under a passenger seat, in accordance with the requirements for carriage of carry-on baggage or cargo established by the Administrator; and
`(B) there is space for such stowage at the time the passenger boards the aircraft.
`(2) LARGER INSTRUMENTS AS CARRY-ON BAGGAGE- An air carrier providing air transportation shall permit a passenger to carry a musical instrument that is too large to meet the requirements of paragraph (1) in the aircraft cabin, without charging the passenger a fee in addition to the cost of the additional ticket described in subparagraph (E), if--
`(A) the instrument is contained in a case or covered so as to avoid injury to other passengers;
`(B) the weight of the instrument, including the case or covering, does not exceed 165 pounds or the applicable weight restrictions for the aircraft;
`(C) the instrument can be stowed in accordance with the requirements for carriage of carry-on baggage or cargo established by the Administrator;
`(D) neither the instrument nor the case contains any object not otherwise permitted to be carried in an aircraft cabin because of a law or regulation of the United States; and
`(E) the passenger wishing to carry the instrument in the aircraft cabin has purchased an additional seat to accommodate the instrument.
`(3) LARGE INSTRUMENTS AS CHECKED BAGGAGE- An air carrier shall transport as baggage a musical instrument that is the property of a passenger traveling in air transportation that may not be carried in the aircraft cabin if--
`(A) the sum of the length, width, and height measured in inches of the outside linear dimensions of the instrument (including the case) does not exceed 150 inches or the applicable size restrictions for the aircraft;
`(B) the weight of the instrument does not exceed 165 pounds or the applicable weight restrictions for the aircraft; and
`(C) the instrument can be stowed in accordance with the requirements for carriage of carry-on baggage or cargo established by the Administrator.
`(b) Regulations- Not later than 2 years after the date of enactment of this section, the Secretary shall issue final regulations to carry out subsection (a).
`(c) Effective Date- The requirements of this section shall become effective on the date of issuance of the final regulations under subsection (b).'.
(b) Conforming Amendment- The analysis for such subchapter is amended by adding at the end the following:
`41724. Musical instruments.'.

Jim

[MikeEdgerton]

Here's the key words you need to pay attention to:

(B) there is space for such stowage at the time the passenger boards the aircraft.

I flew to Oregon from Philadelphia and back over the weekend. I was on four planes flying First Class. On two of those four planes people in First Class had to check their carry on baggage because there was no room on the plane. They got there too late. The closet in first had guitars in it from economy on two legs of the flight and they were full. Don't assume that thing is flying in the cabin with you unless it fits under the seat in front of you. Make sure you don't book a bulkhead seat, you won't have any space under the seat in front of you. Get there early. All these flights were full and they kept stressing that the overheads were shared space.

[John Flynn]

This is great news and a step in the right direction. I suggest a caution in the case of small commuter jets (aka buzz bombs, Barbie jets, lawn darts). Here is what I've found with hundreds of flights in these aircraft:

1. They are operated by small carriers, not the big airlines that you book the flight on, no matter what is painted on the side of the plane. These outfits have their own rules that are not always up to speed with the FAA rules. You can complain later, but at the time of boarding, you may wind up having to check your instrument if you want to go on the flight.

2. The flight attendants are not as well paid or well trained as big airline attendants. A few of them have chips on their shoulders. This can exacerbate #1 above. Some of the attendants, however, are very nice and will find a place for your instrument. You just never know which extreme you will get.

3. The overhead and under-seat compartments on some of these aircraft are VERY small. Some may not even fit a mandolin, especially one in a hard case. Depending on how they have it set up, the Embraer ERJs are especially very tight.

4. Gate checking can be just as hazardous as terminal checking, in fact sometimes more so because there is often more manual handling involved. I have had as much luggage damage with gate checking as I have with terminal checking.

Many of us, myself included, have successfully traveled with mandolins on commuter jets. But what I've found is that you can fly commuters nine times with no problems and the tenth time the situation is completely different. I always go with the idea that I may have to check the instrument and it will get mis-handled. I pack it accordingly and hope for the best.

[Mo Soar]

To add to John's comments - next week I am flying down to LA, leaving from my small home airport, served by Skywest (part of United), which uses 30-seat turbo props. Checking the seat map, there are no empty seats on the flight out or back, so I won't be taking the mandolin - I know, from prior experience, that the mandolin does NOT fit in an overhead, it's too long. If there is an extra seat, it's usually a window, and I have been able to swap my seat for the seat next to the empty window seat and firmly wedge the mandolin under the seat in front of the empty seat (once they required me to belt in in to the seat next to me). They've also been kind enough to store in in the Captain's coat closet, which is inside what is considered the cockpit area (it's actually right before the cockpit door, but still considered "cockpit").

Added - the real gist of the bill is that IF an instrument fits somewhere on the plane, it should be allowed. Board a full plane late, or board a plane that the instrument doesn't fit in, and this doesn't apply.

[Miked]

I've never had a problem with a Travelite case fitting in tight overhead bins, even on the smaller Bombardier and Embraer jets.

[Vernon Hughes]

The stewardess' were always kind enough to let me put my mando in their closet.

[Astro]

The stewardess' were always kind enough to let me put my mando in their closet.

Yeah, I've heard that one before

[MikeEdgerton]

The stewardess' were always kind enough to let me put my mando in their closet.

If that closet is full you won't be getting it in there.

[Justus True Waldron]

As a Mandolin and Clarinet player I'm thankful I have small instruments and I've never had a problem. In the last couple years I did quite a bit of flying with my instruments, and I've never once had to check them. I usually can get away with stashing my case right under my feet/the seat in front of me, but I know that it's actually slightly too big to go there (The neck sticks out and I end up resting my foot on it). Still I've only ever had to put it in the overhead bin once... and there was room. Most of the time I'll kind of plop my jacket on the ground over the neck and squish it with my feet and make eye contact with the stewardess when they walk by, and they don't seem to look that thoroughly. Emergency exit row seats are really good too. I've taken my mando on some really small planes... including a one seat row prop plane to the FL Keys. I'm flying down to Nashville at the end of the month for IBMA and bringing both my instruments, and don't expect any problems even though I've got more regional flights. Playing small instruments is a blessing! Only problem is I've been working on guitar and some cello lately... oh boy

[MikeEdgerton]

The mantra really has to be hope for the best and plan for the worst unless you don't mind sitting and waiting for another plane. I am sure that 99% of the time you'll be fine. It's that 1% that would concern me. Having a mandolin neck sticking out from under a seat in an emergency exit row would probably send up some red flags.

And on an unrelated note, I'd like to say hello to the Cafe member that I ran into on the SFO PDX portion of my flight last week. I wish I'd gotten your name.

[Mo Soar]

You need to know your planes - my roll-aboard is 19"x9.5"x13" European spec (actual measurements, not manufacturer spec, because they all lie by not including wheels and handle) and it doesn't fit in an overhead bin on an Embraer turbo prop. If it doesn't fit, no mandolin will. If the mandolin doesn't fit in an overhead, then you are relying on space elsewhere - technically, you cannot put anything under the seat that sticks out into the passenger space, it must be completely under the seat. I've had flight attendants overlook this before but I've also been called on it.

FWIW, I've never had trouble on a full-size plane, the mandolin has always fit in the overhead. Usually I can find someone else who has some odd item (last flight it was a painting in a frame) and we share a bin - it makes the flight attendant happy that two (odd) passengers with odd items have solved the problem themselves.

[Mandolin Mick]

I know some people have had problems, but I've always made it a rule of thumb never to bring up that I had a mandolin and would just bring it on the plane and put it in the overhead, even if it wasn't near where I would be sitting.

The only time that I've had a question was when I was leaving the airport here in Milwaukee on my way to Bean Blossom. The lady at the check-in asked me what kind of instrument I had in the case. I opened the case and showed her and said, "It's a mandolin, it's tuned the same as a violin." She asked in astonishment, " GDAE?!" She was a violinist with the Milwaukee Symphony and had never seen or heard of a mandolin!