Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

  1. #1
    Slow your roll. greg_tsam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,979
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    A recent post on Dave Peter's showed him doing exercises from Pat Martino using his 5 activities. I searched a little and didn't find what I was looking for which is tablature for MANDOLIN! I know I need to learn standard notation for this exact situation but does anyone know of tabs for this? I believe the book was Pat Martino - Linear Expressions
    Breedlove Quartz FF with K&K Twin - Weber Big Horn - Fender FM62SCE

    Wall Hangers - 1970's Stella A and 60's Kay Kraft

  2. #2
    Registered User Bigtuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    561

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    I too am intrigued by these activities. I've listen to Pat Martino for several years now and after hearing Peters going though his activities I'm going to have to dust of some of the old cds. I also search for the activities but I couldn't even find the stardard notation.
    "They say the ocean, she is a woman, who waits for her man to come home." M.Houser

  3. #3
    Gibson F5L Gibson A5L
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,078
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

  4. #4
    Slow your roll. greg_tsam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,979
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Thanks but I found that before posting this thread. It's for guitar (naturally), in std notation and you have to pay to download it. *sigh. My lack of reading notation has shown itself to be a problem this time. Guess I'll have to learn it well enough to transcribe it for mandolin. It may take me a while.
    Breedlove Quartz FF with K&K Twin - Weber Big Horn - Fender FM62SCE

    Wall Hangers - 1970's Stella A and 60's Kay Kraft

  5. #5
    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    2,994

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Greg, learning to read/write standard notation is improtant in the Jazz world. Most music sources are standard notation and almost none are mandolin tab.

    It really doesn't take long, just need to spend a few minutes a day.
    -----------
    Pete Martin
    www.PetimarPress.com www.Jazz-Mandolin.com
    Instruction books, videos: Bluegrass, Jazz, improvisation, ergonomics
    Private lessons in Seattle and Issaquah WA, Skype lessons to anywhere
    Pete Martin Plays Wes Montgomery free download
    http://www.jazz-mandolin.com/PetePlaysWes.xht

  6. #6

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Someone posted a powertab file of the "activities" a while ago, but the link seems dead now. If you get hold of that you could convert to mandolin tab.

    Or just buy the book and type it into tabledit or similar, each activity is only 5 bars or so and the exercise will improve your reading

    cheers
    Frank Sings But Walt Disney.
    Cook In The Kitchen - guitar tabs etc.

  7. #7
    Registered User DSDarr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    297

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Martin View Post
    Greg, learning to read/write standard notation is improtant in the Jazz world. Most music sources are standard notation and almost none are mandolin tab.

    It really doesn't take long, just need to spend a few minutes a day.
    Greg,

    Echoing what Pete says... I was in the same boat as you and finally decided that my inability to read standard notation well was really slowing down my ability to progress in jazz and choro so several months ago (beginning of February 2012) I decided to finally commit to actually learn to read (and stick to it and not quit after a week or two as I had in the past). I started with a variety of material such as Rich del Grosso's "Mandolin Method" (a beginner method with no tab!) and Marilynn Mair's book "The Complete Mandolinist" as well as swing, jazz, and choro tunes from fakebooks and other sources. I am still not there in the sense that I can not sight read notation nearly as well as I can tab but the more I work at it the easier it is. The key is to avoid tab (at least some of the time, I still use it for fiddle tunes and such) because if there is tab and notation present I will read the tab. And furthermore, this seems to have helped in other ways; I feel like it has helped my ear as well. I don't really understand how or why that would be, and I can't prove it of course, but it seems to be the case.

    -David

  8. #8
    Gibson F5L Gibson A5L
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,078
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Greg my post was responding to BigTuna . . . . . who couldn't find it at all ...... R/
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

  9. #9
    Registered User Bigtuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    561

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Floorstand View Post
    Someone posted a powertab file of the "activities" a while ago, but the link seems dead now. If you get hold of that you could convert to mandolin tab.

    Or just buy the book and type it into tabledit or similar, each activity is only 5 bars or so and the exercise will improve your reading

    cheers

    So does tabledit convert guitar tab to mandolin tab or does it more or less just use the standard notation to convert it to mandolin tab?
    "They say the ocean, she is a woman, who waits for her man to come home." M.Houser

  10. #10
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    San Diego CA
    Posts
    296

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    A really good excersize would actually be to get the sheet music and create your own basic tab. The act of going through the standard notation, figuring out which note it is, and where you'll play it on the mando will really help kick start your reading.

    FWIW - Like many, I started out only reading tab and thinking standard notation was too hard. Eventually my friends convinced me otherwise. I taught myself to read through method books - 30 minutes a day for a while (a year?). Now that I can read, I primarily improve / retain my reading by always finding songs in standard notation - especially Django tunes. I find I can site read many standard notation tunes on the first go through nowadays. And honestly, I really dislike tabs these days. I find them restrictive especially in the jazz world. That said, I do still write out some of my solos in tab because I want to be specific.

  11. #11
    Phil Goodson Philphool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Statesville, NC
    Posts
    2,970

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    This discussion needs to go beyond 'tabs'. I've looked over the "activities" and I'm not sure that simply translating the exercises into mando tab accomplishes what Pat Martino intended, which looks to me to be a way of learning to have a minor scale at your fingertips within a fairly small area of the fingerboard, and then repeating for a different area of fb.

    The activities are written for guitar, and with the different tuning for mando with only 4 courses of strings, the exercise is somewhat limited as compared to the notes that can be covered on guitar at that area of the fretboard.

    Some thinking about the intent and how to best accomplish that might need to be added to merely converting the exercise to tab.

    Any insights that any of you come up with would interest me.
    Phil

    “Sharps/Flats” ≠ “Accidentals”

  12. #12
    Phil Goodson Philphool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Statesville, NC
    Posts
    2,970

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Okay. I've tried to reproduce mando tab for the Martino "Activities". I did them in closed form; no open strings, so they're moveable.
    Activity 1 is written for Am; activity 2 is still for the same key but as explained in the text, is based on Cmaj7.

    I've only gotten Activities 1 & 2 done at this point. Here you go:
    Code:
    Activity 1         Am
    ---------------------------------3-------5-3-2-------------------------- 
    -----------------------2-5-2-3-7---2-1---------7-5-2-3-7-2-3-2---------- 
    ---------1-2-5-2-4-6-7-----------------4-----------------------7-5-2---2 
    -2-4-5-7-------------------------------------------------------------7—-
    
    
    Activity 2    CM7
    ---------------------------3-7-10-8--3-7-5-4-3-5-2--------------------- 
    ---------2-3-2-1---2-3-5-7----------7--------------7-5-3-2--1----2----- 
    -----2-5---------7-----------------------------------------5--3-7--3-2- 
    -4-5-------------------------------------------------------------------
    Comments always welcome. I'll try to get the other 'Activities' up soon.
    Phil

    “Sharps/Flats” ≠ “Accidentals”

  13. #13
    Registered User Jordan Ramsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Boulder, Colorado
    Posts
    528

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Hey Phil, good on you for diving in and working this stuff out, no easy task. You're on the right track, but I have a couple of suggestions... In activity 1, if you're counting your tab in groups of 4, your 5th grouping (3 on E, 2 then 1 on A, and then 4 on D) changes the octave from what's actually written in the book and sort of breaks up the flow of the line. Not sure why you moved it, you can play those same notes in the proper octave still in first position. I.e. 3 7 6 2 on E, and it actually lays out pretty nicely pattern wise with the 3 7 that precedes it on the A string. Second thing is the placement and fingering for activity 2, and here is where converting these activities gets a little tricky. Like you said, these are guitar lines meant to be played in one place on that instrument, so in a lot of cases you can't just take the notes from the page and transfer them directly to first position on the mandolin, you've got to play some things in different places and do a little shifting around (see my attached example of how I would play activity 2 in your key, circled numbers underneath the tab line are fingerings).

    I figured most of this out by studying Dave Peters play them on the Bob Gray video footage (27:22 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUz0D...&feature=g-upl). Dave obviously spent many hours with Pat's book and really learned how to lay these out in closed positions and actually use them on the mandolin. The more you listen to Dave after studying this stuff, the more you hear Martino licks all through his playing. Good luck transferring the rest, take care.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Activity 2.pdf 
Views:	311 
Size:	54.8 KB 
ID:	93095
    2016 Ellis F5
    2007 Gibson Sam Bush
    1924 Gibson A Jr.
    1913 R. Calace Brevettato 900
    Ragged Union
    Espresso
    Youtube

  14. The following members say thank you to Jordan Ramsey for this post:


  15. #14
    Phil Goodson Philphool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Statesville, NC
    Posts
    2,970

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Thanks Jordan.
    I appreciate your analysis. I went through a step of writing out the names of the notes while transcribing, and I think that's where I got the octave switched without realizing it. I'll go back and rework that.

    I'll try to get to the other activities soon. Thanks for any comments and insights you have.
    Wish we could all play like Dave! Wow!
    Phil

    “Sharps/Flats” ≠ “Accidentals”

  16. The following members say thank you to Philphool for this post:


  17. #15
    Registered User Bigtuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    561

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Thanks sharing!
    "They say the ocean, she is a woman, who waits for her man to come home." M.Houser

  18. #16
    Phil Goodson Philphool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Statesville, NC
    Posts
    2,970

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Okay. Here's my next effort. I've made changes based on Jordan's recommendations.
    The activity 3 is presented in 2 versions. I'm hoping Jordan and others will weigh in with an opinion about which is best or what other changes might be appropriate.

    Pat Martino

    Activity 1         Am
    ---------------------------------3-7-6-2-5-3-2--------------------------
    -----------------------2-5-2-3-7---------------7-5-2-3-7-2-3-2----------
    ---------1-2-5-2-4-6-7-----------------------------------------7-5-2---2
    -2-4-5-7-------------------------------------------------------------7—-



    Activity 2 CM7
    -------------------------------7-10-8-----7-5------5--------------------------
    -------------------------5-7-10-------7-10----11-10--9-7-5--------------------
    -------5-9-10-9-8-7-9-10-----------------------------------10-9-5-8-4-7-9-4---
    -4-5-9----------------------------------------------------------------------9-



    Activity 3 Am
    -------------------3-7-8-7-6--5-3------5-8-12-10-7----------------------------------
    --------------5-3-7---------------7-8-9------------9-5-7----------------------------
    -2-4-6-9-6-7-9-9-----------------------------------------10-9-7-12-9-10-12--9-7-----
    --------|------|-----|-------|-------|--------|-------|--------|----------|----12-9-



    I think this is the better of the two versions in that it stays in the same part of the fretboard:
    Activity 3 Am
    ----------------------------7-8-7-6---------------8-12-10-7----------------------------------
    ------------------------7-10--------12-10-7-8-9-12----------9----7---------------------------
    --------9-----9-12-9-10---------------------------------------12---10-9-7-12-9-10-12-9-7-----
    -9-11-13-13-14---------------------------------------------------------------------------12-9-

    I'll try to get 'activities' 4 & 5 done soon.
    I'm also hoping to be able to tab out the "combined version" that Dave demonstrates on the video.
    Phil

    “Sharps/Flats” ≠ “Accidentals”

  19. #17
    Registered User Bigtuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    561

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtuna View Post
    Thanks sharing!
    How about: Thanks for sharing! I can't even type much less tab anything out these days. Phil, I really appreciate all the time and hard work you have put into this.

    Chris
    "They say the ocean, she is a woman, who waits for her man to come home." M.Houser

  20. #18
    Phil Goodson Philphool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Statesville, NC
    Posts
    2,970

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Here's my best shot so far. If anyone has suggestions or improvements, please comment.

    Activity 1         Am
    ---------------------------------3-7-6-2-5-3-2--------------------------
    -----------------------2-5-2-3-7---------------7-5-2-3-7-2-3-2----------
    ---------1-2-5-2-4-6-7-----------------------------------------7-5-2---2
    -2-4-5-7-------------------------------------------------------------7—-


    Activity 2 CM7
    -------------------------------7-10-8-----7-5------5--------------------------
    -------------------------5-7-10-------7-10----11-10--9-7-5--------------------
    -------5-9-10-9-8-7-9-10-----------------------------------10-9-5-8-4-7-9-4---
    -4-5-9----------------------------------------------------------------------9-


    Activity 3 Am
    ----------------------------7-8-7-6---------------8-12-10-7----------------------------------
    ------------------------7-10--------12-10-7-8-9-12----------9----7---------------------------
    --------9-----9-12-9-10---------------------------------------12---10-9-7-12-9-10-12-9-7-----
    -9-11-13-13-14---------------------------------------------------------------------------12-9-


    Activity 4 Am
    ---------------------|------------------|-8-10-12-15-14-12-10-8-|-7-8-7-5---------|----------------
    --------------------------10--9-11-12-14----------------------------------10-7-5-------------------
    ---------9---9-10-12-13-14--14---------------------------------------------------10-9---8--7-8-----
    -9-11-13--14-------------------------------------------------------------------------12-—11----12-9


    Activity 5 Am
    -----------------------7-8-10-12-15-19-17-15-12-10-8-7---6-------------------------------
    -------------7-10-14-12--------------------------------10--9-12-10-9-7-------------------
    -7-9-12-9-10-----------------------------------------------------------12-9-10-12-9-7-5-7
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now to figure out exactly how to incorporate these ideas into improv! (I'm tired!!)
    Phil

    “Sharps/Flats” ≠ “Accidentals”

  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Philphool For This Useful Post:


  22. #19
    Slow your roll. greg_tsam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,979
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    What Big Tuna said, Thanks sharing!
    Breedlove Quartz FF with K&K Twin - Weber Big Horn - Fender FM62SCE

    Wall Hangers - 1970's Stella A and 60's Kay Kraft

  23. #20
    Registered User Jordan Ramsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Boulder, Colorado
    Posts
    528

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Hey Phil,

    Great job! Like you said, putting these on paper, and actually learning how to use them are two totally different animals. Anyone serious about this stuff should get their reading chops up and get Pat's book and work through all of his line studies (where he gives examples of how to tie these activities together). Anyway, Phil, good for you for doing this work, I'm sure you learned a ton. I've had this in my files for a little while, wanted to make you do the work before I posted it


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pat Martino's 5 Activities.pdf 
Views:	577 
Size:	166.2 KB 
ID:	93156

    Pat Martino's Five Activities.mp3
    2016 Ellis F5
    2007 Gibson Sam Bush
    1924 Gibson A Jr.
    1913 R. Calace Brevettato 900
    Ragged Union
    Espresso
    Youtube

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jordan Ramsey For This Useful Post:


  25. #21
    Phil Goodson Philphool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Statesville, NC
    Posts
    2,970

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Jordan,

    Thanks for that! You're exactly right; I learned a lot. I recommend transcribing solos, riffs, etc that you hear other musicians do. You discover so much from going through the process. Much of what is learned is totally in addition to the piece itself.

    Now to get to the work of incorporating these ideas into everyday internalized tools to be pulled out of subconsciousness (or consciousness) when it is needed. Check back with me in a couple years.
    Phil

    “Sharps/Flats” ≠ “Accidentals”

  26. The following members say thank you to Philphool for this post:


  27. #22
    Registered User Perry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Rockland Cty, NY
    Posts
    1,959

    Default Re: Pat Martino - Linear Expressions

    Ghost thread resurrection

    This book arriving today...was searching web and stumbled on this. The video referenced above where Dave Peters plays the activities is great.

    I play both guitar and mandolin and read standard so will apply to both.

    Here's another reason to read standard...much easier to see for aging eyes

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •