Who likes exercises?

[Bob Clark]

I've been playing lots of exercises these past few months. I was reluctant to get started on exercises, but at my instructors urging, I started. I now find that I can't get enough of them. I really enjoy playing from Schradieck's The School of Violin-Technic. I also like to play scales and arpeggios. I find them very relaxing, almost mesmerizing (a Zen thing?).

Any of you have similar experiences with exercises? Do you really get into exercises, too?

[John Flynn]

I like Mike Marshall's advice: Make your own exercises out of phrases in tunes you find difficult, or techniques you are trying to master, like tremolo, crosspicking, jig picking or triplets. I work them with the metronome and speed up as I can. This has helped me a lot and I do enjoy it. I will also do scales occasionally, like the Aonzo scales. I also like to do a drill where I do a walk-up, walk down on every other note a scale, like 1-3-2-4-3-5-etc. The scales are great warm ups for the hands.

I can't say that I get in an "alpha state" doing them, though. They are just a means to an end and I much prefer playing tunes.

[bmac]

I believe it is a matter of thinking... I am not bothered at all by playinghours to achieve a specific specific goal within a partivcular tune, no matter how simple. what i would object to is the pointless practice of scales, etc. without the connection to a tune of some sort.

Practice is something I just don't do... But I play an awful lot. Counting out rythm is also something I don't do. If I did I don't think I would get past two before I was bored silly.

But i think I do have the advantage of playing some instrument or another since I was a kid. so maybe I have developed instincts.

[Shelagh Moore]

My approach is the same as bmac's. I also tend to work with tunes, phrases and techniques rather than exercises with my mandolin students.

[OldSausage]

My opinion is that if you're not thinking hard about what you're doing while you're practicing, you're essentially wasting your practice time. If you have an exercise that you find so easy you get into a "zen" state, then you should make it more difficult for yourself by doing things like speeding up (only if you can do it cleanly); working on your tone production; varying the length of notes or the rhythmic feel of your playing; changing the dynamics to make it more expressive; and lots more. I've heard people say they practice "building up muscle memory" by playing tunes over and over while sitting in front of the TV. I think that illustrates a dramatic underestimate of the mental work involved in getting your playing and musical abilities to where you probably would like them to be.

[Mandolincelli]

My opinion is that if you're not thinking hard about what you're doing while you're practicing, you're essentially wasting your practice time. If you have an exercise that you find so easy you get into a "zen" state, then you should make it more difficult for yourself by doing things like speeding up (only if you can do it cleanly); working on your tone production; varying the length of notes or the rhythmic feel of your playing; changing the dynamics to make it more expressive; and lots more. I've heard people say they practice "building up muscle memory" by playing tunes over and over while sitting in front of the TV. I think that illustrates a dramatic underestimate of the mental work involved in getting your playing and musical abilities to where you probably would like them to be.

Amen brother! Learning requires effort and attention. Learn to love learning and experience the thrill of your accelerated improvement.

[catmandu2]

Same as Bart and Richard here. I've so much GD repertoire that i spend all of my time playing tunes

I've been at it so long--when I was learning technical material I simply would make up my own exercises. Led me to believe that all a person really needs (should need) is an analytical approach and some theoretical knowledge--and of course some creativity and imagination--with which to effectively self instruct. of course this presumes that a person is diligent, and being analytical also helps a great deal

Also totally agree with oldsaus- and m-celli ... There is a thread running down in "Theory & Technique" currently on technical exercise

[G7MOF]

I do scales every day before any tunes/songs. This I find not only losens up my fingers, but also my mandolin.

[catmandu2]

I've been playing lots of exercises these past few months. I was reluctant to get started on exercises, but at my instructors urging, I started. I now find that I can't get enough of them. I really enjoy playing from Schradieck's The School of Violin-Technic. I also like to play scales and arpeggios. I find them very relaxing, almost mesmerizing (a Zen thing?).

Any of you have similar experiences with exercises? Do you really get into exercises, too?

I spent years with scales. I feel that it's simply essential--if your aim is to become the best player you can. But I did not do it efficiently--but rather laboriously and mechanically much of ghe time. But I was so myopic and motivated to play (and learn) that it didn't matter--in that it didn't impede me from practice. I certainly don't recommend this though--as I'm sure I wasted a lot of effort and time

*BTW- I should mention that I did this work on guitar and then contrabass primarily--an instrument where this is required

[Beanzy]

I love doing them, they're useful and very efficient ways of making sure I'm covering as many of the possibilities as possible, I wouldn't think of half of the combinations I see come up in books. But they're part of a longer learning process and I don't spend more than about 25 mins on any one area of practice. It would be too easy to slip into one aspect and neglect something else. They're very rewarding like you say, but I need a varied diet. I recognise what you mean by saying they're something that can be mentally relaxing, but like fly-fishing you have to avoid just slipping into the casting action or technique, however satisfying. I'm there to catch a fish / make better music too. So it's nice to take time out to refine technique in a structured way, but I'd hate to just be a casting expert.

So most days I'll probably work through scales and apreggios in one key and the relative melodic minor a few times, then move on to reading and working out a new piece, then work something out by ear from a recording and finally play through at least 5 or 6 tunes already in my repertoire in 2 or 3 styles. At least a couple of hours gone, but hopefully without being too biased in one direction or the other.

[Bob Clark]

So most days I'll probably work through scales and apreggios in one key and the relative melodic minor a few times, then move on to reading and working out a new piece, then work something out by ear from a recording and finally play through at least 5 or 6 tunes already in my repertoire in 2 or 3 styles. At least a couple of hours gone, but hopefully without being too biased in one direction or the other.

Hi Eoin,

I like your blended approach. It sounds very effective and similar to what I do, although I think you probably play longer most days than I am able to. When I say that I find exercises relaxing, I do not mean to imply that I am on autopilot and not striving to do better technically. That certainly would be a waste of time. What I mean is that I find my arm and wrist muscles relaxing, my usual distractions and stresses out of mind, and the time really slipping by before I realize it. I like the fly fishing analogy, but like you, I'm also there to "catch fish" musically speaking.

While I do work on repertoire each day, I think my picking and fretting technique probably benefits more from my exercises. When I am working on sight reading or ear training, I concentrate too much on the piece of music I am learning, and sometimes the other parts of my technique can get a little sloppy.

None of this is meant to say that what I am doing is any better than what anyone else is doing. Most of you are far better players than I will ever be. I just am glad that I managed to overcome my initial resistance to exercises because I enjoy them so much, and they help me to play better. I'm glad they work for some of you, and am equally glad that others have found different ways to improve.

Best wishes,

Bob

[Beanzy]

When I am working on sight reading or ear training, I concentrate too much on the piece of music I am learning, and sometimes the other parts of my technique can get a little sloppy.

Exactly the same here and it's why they're proving so useful to me. I blame it on being a bloke, apparently we don't multi-task well But over time I'm finding the technique improvements from the scales etc. seem to survive better under distractions like trying to figure out what I'm looking at, or what chord is supposed to come next. I think when playing through my tunes I need the technique to be sorted and out of the way, as I'm normally just off in the "happy playing music" zone and so much in the flow of the tune that I remember to think about nice tone just about the time I wind up the piece.

[JeffD]

My opinion is that if you're not thinking hard about what you're doing while you're practicing, you're essentially wasting your practice time.

If you don't enjoy exercises are of the mind set that exercises are something you do only to get better and get done with to get on to the funner stuff, like eating your veggies before desert, then make them as effecient and effective as possible, I agree, and best to be mindfull and keep raising the bar so that mindfulness is continuously required.

But exercises are fun. And there is no reason not to do them for fun. I have said elsewhere I enjoy playing the mandolin more than I enjoy playing any particular kind of music on the mandolin. I often pick it up with no thought to practice, or to work on anything in particular, and find myself running through exercises continuously, as perfectly as I can, to the point where I can do them perfectly and mindlessly, and sit back with a sort of zen detachment and watch the wonder of my fingers doing all that stuff.

There is nothing wrong with this. Don't confuse it with productive practice, because folks are right, it isnt, but it is a lot of fun, and a cool way to enjoy the instrument.

Also, with detachment, you can hear the tone you might want to improve, or the musicality that you might want to address.

If you enjoy exercises, they can be their own fun, and not always something to "work on". Do work on them, but then, play on them afterwards.

[Mike Bunting]

I notice that people here don't really know much about Zen as they make reference to it. Zen here means, if you are playing scales, play scales. Playing scales implies a lot. Otherwise, I agree with the Old Sausage.

[Denny Gies]

I'm retired and avoid exercises at all costs.

[mandroid]

Off to the thursday night jam, at the Blue Scorcher Bakery,(draws a few different players) ,
[community contra dance band 'rehearsals'] alternate weeks from the
Triangle Tavern, where we swap tunes and exercise .. Beer (Pint/pounder) curls..

come on by..

[JeffD]

Zen here means, if you are playing scales, play scales. Playing scales implies a lot. Otherwise, I agree with the Old Sausage.

Chop wood, carry water, play scales.

[Beanzy]

Wax on, Wax off.

[Bertram Henze]

I was reluctant to get started on exercises, but at my instructors urging, I started. I now find that I can't get enough of them....
...
Do you really get into exercises, too?

Only if a leather-clad lady with a whip is provided along with them.
Otherwise, I just play.

[JeffD]

I think we are in danger of straying from the OPs point. I only bring this up because I think its a unique perspective and haven't seen it elsewhere and I really agree.

I now find that I can't get enough of them. ... I also like to play scales and arpeggios. I find them very relaxing, almost mesmerizing (a Zen thing?).

Any of you have similar experiences with exercises? Do you really get into exercises, too?

Folks seem to want to jump quickly into the best way to practice, or whether or how exercises should be done, or the efficacy and benefits of exercises - when, I think, Bob's idea is the fun of it. I suspect, (going out on a limb here) that many of us are sympathetic with Bertram.

But I am surprized and delighted that the OP was about enjoyment.

Doing exercises because it is (or can be) fun to do exercises. I mean, sure there is fun in seeing yourself closer to your goals, watching yourself improve, etc. But there is a genuine fun in just doing arpeggios and scales and those little shuffle things and drills etc., in every key and around the circle of fifths, whatever.

There are times its all I want to do.

Yea, its not playing music, but hey, its not changing strings either.

[Bob Clark]

JeffD is right on the money. I really enjoy playing exercises and could not believe that I am alone in this. I am glad to read that some others, such as JeffD, also enjoy it. As he says, it's not music but it's enjoyable for what it is. Maybe, if some of us who enjoy exercises let others know that we do, some who are resistant to trying exercises will try them and find that they are having fun, too.

Exercises don't take the place of playing music and never will. But they don't have to be a boring grind, either. I find them a lot of fun.

But to be completely honest, there is not much that I have tried on these fascinating little instruments that I don't enjoy. It's not just one style of music I enjoy on it; it's really the instrument itself. Exercises are one more way to spend time enjoying my mandolin.

Best wishes, Bob

[OldSausage]

So, I'm all for this being enjoyable, and I'm all for people expressing their enjoyment of doing exercises. I just wanted to flag up a danger area that this tiptoes near, where a person can waste a lot of time if they're not careful. I've done it myself.

Whether the time is really "wasted" or not depends on your goals, I understand that. What I mean by wasted is when you think you are achieving something with your time and effort, but you're really not.

[JeffD]

My opinion is that if you're not thinking hard about what you're doing while you're practicing, you're essentially wasting your practice time..

Time behind the mandolin is never wasted time.


But I know what you mean, and I agree.

[AnneFlies]

I like Mike Marshall's advice: Make your own exercises out of phrases in tunes you find difficult, or techniques you are trying to master, like tremolo, crosspicking, jig picking or triplets.

I play a tune through, and wherever I had problems, I play over and over until it's right and easy to play. Then I play the tune again, and repeat if necessary. The repeat may be in a different place, but I feel like I'm accomplishing something and having fun getting it right. I hate scales - a few years of clarinet and piano cured me of that nonsense.

Anne.

[JeffD]

My only concern was that Bob said he finds exercises relaxing and mesemerizing. Now, if your goal is to be relaxed and mesmerized, I have absolutely no problem with that. But if you are doing exercises in order to improve your playing, my personal view is that you should not be finding them relaxing and mesmerizing. You should find them exciting, intriguing, and hard work. I do, and for me that is a lot more fun.

I pretty much agree.

I have my own personal issues with "hard work". Work, absolutely, but hard work? I try my darndest to avoid hard work unless I am or am about to get paid for it.

A friend of mine says that getting paid to play mandolin is like getting paid to eat ice cream.