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Thread: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

  1. #1
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    Default Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    Step one: Bring hands together rapidly.

    Step two: Separate hands

    Step three: repeat steps 1-3....

    I can't tell you how many live performances I've been to that were tarnished in my mind forever by a bunch of people who think that they are there to keep time for the performers. If they were on time, that would be one thing...if they didn't get bored half way through the song and decide to slow their clapping down, that would be a different story. If it wasn't the whole concert, MAYBE?

    Is this a normal thing everywhere? Am I the minority?

    Ok...I'll get off my soap box now.
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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    I have mixed feelings about it. If I'm in the audience, or watching a recorded show, then it's always annoying. As a band member though, it's nice to know that you've revved people up enough to clap... even if it does make your job twice as hard now, to keep your rhythm solid. It beats looking out in the audience and seeing nothing but a bunch of stiffs who aren't visibly getting into the music

    There's something equally annoying (or worse) that happens in jams, and that's when someone pulls out a shakey egg. I hate those things. For some reason, people just don't understand that they have a built-in time delay in the way they work, so they have to be moved ahead of the beat. Drives me nuts. It's the jamming equivalent of the too-slow audience handlcap at a concert.

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    Registered User Rick Crenshaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    I'm with you... only one type worse than the clapper/group clappers... that is the 'whooooo' ters. The worst being the extraordinarily-awkwardly-timed whooooooter. I'm almost certain that type must also be an extraordinary adult beverage consumptioner... at least I hope they are just drunk, otherwise, they are extraordinarily clueless when sober.

    Ask me how I know. Just went to a Gillian Welch/David Rawlings concert. Jeeeshh. Oh.. and the "I HAVE to check my text messages/mail" people abound. At least they were silent. Just blind you in a dark theater if you sit behind them.
    Rick in Memphis

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    Registered User Rick Crenshaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    Regarding the shaky egg folks. They fall into the spoons, bones, and most harmonica players category. You have to almost feel bad for them. They obviously enjoy music immensely but have no discernible ability or talent to do so. They are just doing what they can. Unfortunately for the rest of us.
    Rick in Memphis

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    poor excuse for anything Charlieshafer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    Yeah, it's a mixed bag. As a presenter, it is nice to see the audience getting into it, but I know if it's not dead on it can get a little distracting for the musicians. After the show though, when we're relaxing with a little wine, all the musicians will say they really like the fact that the audience was into it, and the little inaccuracies of their timing is forgotten. Having a performance "tarnished forever"? That seems a little harsh; that's just one of the aspects of live music. In one show, there will be many moments of brilliance, and a few moments of things not being quite right. About the only way you can avoid the not-quite-right moments is to avoid live shows, and that's just not worth it.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    I think it might depend on the group and on the song.........if it's an all-out version of, well, ROCKY TOP, I guess the audience might be clapping along, but if it's Chris Thile and Mike Marshall or Andy Statman or Grisman doing some sweet jazzy thing, it certainly can drive you nuts ........

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    Registered User SincereCorgi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    In principle, I am okay with an audience singing along or clapping, since the opposite extreme is the mausoleum atmosphere that makes contemporary classical music such a drag. In practice, I think the government might run some PSAs about the importance of clapping on 2 and 4.


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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    When the audience is clapping along with my playing and it isn`t in time I just turn up the monitors a wee bit to drown them out, they can`t hear the monitors but we can....THINK...Most if the time there is a solution to those problems, if it happens at a jam that you are in, just move on to another one....Or do like I do, I take a huge friend with me and just tell the culprit to shut up, no one has ever took him on yet....

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    Registered User belbein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    What's worse than an out of time clapper? It's being the friend of the clapper, who insists on going to folk music concerts and insists on clapping out of time!

  10. #10
    This Kid Needs Practice Bill Clements's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    You didn't mention the non-rhythmic but percussive-like coughing patron or the crying baby who drowns out even the banjo player!
    "Music is the only noise for which one is obliged to pay." ~ Alexander Dumas

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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    Ok..do you performers HAVE given me a look at the other side I guess. I can understand that it's an "enjoyment indicator"

    As far as my comments about it ruining a performance...I have a bit of OCD or something. I pick up on small noises i.e. someone eating a banana, or clicking their finger nails, an then I get like tunnel hearing and I hear nothing else until it stops....cray I know, but that's me I guess. So, me being from south Louisiana...the French/Cajun music dominates. Bluegrass is kind of not so popular. Rickey Skaggs performed here last year, and I made it a point to go. And what did the crowd do....clap through the songs. Drove me mad.

    Today rant was fouled by a recording of a Chris thile concert on YouTube that was ruined because the guy next to the person recording clapped through the entire thing...and that's all you could hear.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    In 1992,i attended the IBMA bash in Owensboro.During the week,i went along to a local school to watch the 'Kentucky Rose' band perform there. The band had everything set up & the adults were stood around waiting for everything to kick off,& then the kids were allowed into the hall.They were all aged around 4 to 6 years of age.The teacher sat them down on the floor & the band played their first song.Well,the children clapped - Oh boy !! ,did they clap. It was all over the place.After the song had finished,the teacher told the children to clap using just 2 fingers of each hand - silently.The second song began & the children started the 2 fingered clapping.Then,they must have thought,''to heck with it'' & began a full hand clap all over again. The band just dissolved laughing. It was one of the nicest things i ever saw & the children had a great time - so did everybody else.
    Personally,clapping & hooting while i'm playing doesn't put me off too much. It's the throwing & shooting that gets me,
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    I used to play in a duo, and we had a faithful fan who was a persistent shaky egg player, at every gig, on every song.This would have been ok, but she had no sense of rhythm whatsoever, although she had plenty of enthusiasm and volume. We eventually bought two shaky eggs, one black, the other gold. We carefully split the gold one, took the beads out, and glued it back together. Next gig; we offered her a chance to play the gold 'professional model', which she accepted. When no sound came out, we told her it was a more difficult instrument, and practice was needed. She said 'show me how it's done'. My partner took the egg, and shook it; hey presto, it worked! She kept practicing..silently...all through the gig. We never did tell her about the black shaky egg up his sleeve....
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    Registered User Jim Yates's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    I guess whooping could be overdone, but it's never happened to me. I love to hear a whoop of appreciation now and then. In some of the Irish trad groups I've played in, someone would whoop to indicate a tune change in a set.
    Rhythmic clapping that slows or speeds is very annoying and hard to play against.
    Dancing in front of the stage at a festival is inconsiderate. Many festivals have places at the side of the stage where people can dance without blocking people's view or distracting from the playing.
    It has not hit the folk circuit yet, but the trend at rock concerts of standing through the performance is very inconsiderate. My wife and I paid big bucks (for us) for a seat to see Paul McCartney last year and had to stand to see anything, since the people in front were standing. Fine for a twenty year old, but I'm a senior citizen and standing for a whole concert is not comfortable.

    I just re-read SincereCorgi's post and watched the video. A friend of mine has a sticker on his case that says "Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3".
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    Registered User neil argonaut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    Yeah have to agree with the video, as I was saying in the thread about joining in, nothing can suck the life out some tunes than folk clapping on the one and three.

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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    Did anybody mention the Irish Bane yet? The bodhran is the Irish equivalent of the shakey egg. Oh, and the tambourine. Not the modern kind with just jingles, but the old-fashioned ones with a drum head. Well, either really.
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    bird and mando geek Rob Fowler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    Hi all,
    I was just watching this video and it made me remember this thread. Thile seems to put the clapping to rest pretty quickly while doing it in a way where he didn't sound like a jerk. Haven't heard him play this tune for awhile!! Check out some of the other videos from Floydfest that this youtube user posted on his page. Sam Bush, Punch Brothers, etc.

    Thought maybe some of you would enjoy this!



  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Rob Fowler For This Useful Post:


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    Registered User Laird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    Warning: Minority opinion.

    There are certainly venues at which clapping or egg-shaking may be inappropriate, but never at one of my shows. Seriously. Back when we were forming our band about six years ago now, we decided we were playing music for the purpose of making a joyful noise, and offering that as a gift to our community. None of us is particularly talented, and one of us sometimes has a hard time staying on key when singing, but if we let self-consciousness keep us from performing, we'd be denying ourselves the joy we take in making music--and whatever joy our audiences take in hearing it. If some of them want to clap or shake an egg--even at a different rhythm--their smiles and shuffling dance steps are worth more to me than all the money I've never made making music. My partner usually hands my little boy an egg or a shell rattle during our gigs, and there's nothing more beautiful than seeing a two-and-a-half-year-old child shaking his booty while looking rather desperately for the beat.

    Granted, we're a local band that plays gratis (usually) for community events, rallies, and the occasional protest. Nobody comes expecting us to sound like professionals, I don't think--and when we do keep things tight, it's a nice feeling. But I'd much rather put up with the off-tempo clappers than create an environment where people feel self-conscious about engaging with the music.

    But that's me and my friends. I totally get that other musicians are looking for something else from their interaction with an audience.
    Last edited by Laird; Aug-02-2012 at 9:24pm.

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    F5G & MD305 Astro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    I'm with you Laird. My little duo is not out there making ground breaking art. Its for good times. Most of the time I don't here anything from the audience during the song. If they even try to clap,sing,stomp,hoot, I get a kick out of it.

    The clapping at the end of the song is nice. Sometimes everyone is so busy talking we dont even get that.

    Here are my pet peeves;

    The establishment asks we play in such a tight corner that we have to breath in while the other breaths out. Or there is a patron eating at a table 3 1/2 inches from your strumming hand. Its upsetting when you're singing a soft ballad and the guy asks you to please pass the salt . And one thing I hate is when I hear another band play and they want to talk between songs. Its either cutesy nothings where they jest between themselves trying to be funny and cool or the long soulful explanations of what the next song means to them. Nothing kills the groove more to me than that. I try to tell my bandmate finish one song and start the next while the last one's still ringing.

  21. #20
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    Maybe you and yur band should just learn to play in time and on beat...with the clapper. Don't mind the woohoo'ers. They are way beyond your talent levels...
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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    As the incontinent mandolinist said, "Depends."

    Playing for kids and/or developmentally disabled, I aim for max involvement and participation. Clap, stomp, wave your hands in the air, shout out the names of animals for me to rhyme, etc. etc. If it gets so raucous and chaotic that the beat disappears and the melody follows, well, there are strategies to "turn it down" and get back to music or near-music.

    Playing for seniors, when I pull out the banjo and launch into Oh Susannah, I always invite them to "Clap your hands, snap your fingers, tap your feet -- but please, only your own feet!" Seldom do these audiences manage to muster enough energy to be distracting; but when I see lips moving, feet patting, I feel I've reached people who probably appreciate getting a chance for involvement.

    "Regular" audiences -- hey, after a half-century, guess I've learned enough "tricks" to adjust the participation level to pretty near where I want it. Repertoire choices, tempos up or down, familiarity vs. obscurity, "intense, serious message" or "good-timey sing-along"... You make it work. Don't make your audience uncomfortable, but remember the guy/gal(s) onstage is really in charge, so wherever the gig goes, you took it there, one way or 'tother.

    With regard to Astro's point about "talking between songs": the introduction to a song is as much part of the performance, as the music itself. Intro and song are a unit. Rule of thumb (mine anyway) is that the intro shouldn't be longer that the song itself, but I've broken that rule now and again. Putting a song in context, adding humor or byplay, even explanation of "why I wrote this" if one is a writer, can add rather than detract. IMHO, anyway.
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    F5G & MD305 Astro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    If folks are interested and listening, then you are doing it right.

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    Registered User Jim Yates's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post

    With regard to Astro's point about "talking between songs": the introduction to a song is as much part of the performance, as the music itself. Intro and song are a unit. Rule of thumb (mine anyway) is that the intro shouldn't be longer that the song itself, but I've broken that rule now and again. Putting a song in context, adding humor or byplay, even explanation of "why I wrote this" if one is a writer, can add rather than detract. IMHO, anyway.
    I couldn't agree more. If it's not my song and I know who wrote it, I'll always credit the writer or the person I learned it from. Our group has several instrument changes and some patter is required while this is happening. I am always disappointed when I go to a show and the players don't say anything about the songs or have no interaction with the audience.
    Some of my favourite performers, John Hartford, Gambel Rogers, Utah Philips, Norman Blake, Todd Snider, Cathy Fink, Jethro Burns... make/made the between song patter a big part of their show.
    Jim Yates

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    Registered User stonefingers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    I love the audience participation, but I must admit, my least favorite is when the "outta time clappers" decide to "help" on the one accapella song in the whole set. Wow! Talk about focus problems.

  26. #25
    F5G & MD305 Astro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruining a live performance in three easy steps...

    Yeah, I see Jim and Allen's point. I guess I was addressing a different kind of performance.

    If I go to see a particular performer/band that I'm a fan of, I do want that interaction. I am interested in what they have to say.

    But my little duo isn't that good. No one is really there just to see us and we are basically the background music. At this point I dont mind and wouldnt want more attention. We really arent that good. I'm happy to be the background party music.

    So what I was talking about is when the band is suppose to function as the background party music and keep the energy up for the patrons and no one has ever heard of the band and they just went out to a bar to meet their friends and have a good time, not to a coffee house music performance. When I'm out like that and a mediocre background music band stops for a 10 minute soliloquy about how the next song is about a girl he met when his father backed over the dog just before he could have died from his tonsillectomy as a teenager.....its snoozeville.

    But I agree if I am there to hear someone good that I really like, I do enjoy their in between banter.

    So if people are listening, you are way better than my little duo, and definitely doing it right.

    If everyone pretty much ignores the banter except for a few sympathetic relatives in the front tables, then best to shut up and keep playing one after the other before you become the buzzkill.

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