Re-fretted my Gibson with Bigger Wire

[Phil Vinyard]

I’ve played the heck out of my Gibson Jam Master these last 3 years and it was in need of a fret dressing at a minimum. Been reading in the Café about people getting bigger fret wire put on their mando to make it easier to play, especially for classical pieces.

I’ve been working on a Gervasio piece with some triple stops that have not been easy in spite of my freakishly large hands. The clincher to me was playing the piece on my teacher’s (Bruce Graybill) Weber with larger fret wire—much easier to negotiate the notes.

So I did my research. My understanding is Gibson fret wire is typically .034” wide and .032” tall. Weber uses 0.080" x .037 fretwire from Jescar (FW37080).

I took it to my favorite luthier, Matt Harmon at Mass Street Music in Lawrence, KS. He didn’t have the Jescar wire in stock but had some from Collings that was .080x.040 and we agreed that was close enough.

I’ve had the Gibson back for about a week and the new wire made a stunning difference! It takes much less pressure to play and I don’t have to be right below the fret to play a clean note. It’s going to take me a while to get used to and adjust to playing with much less finger pressure, so final results will be some time away but at this point looks promising.

So that’s my two bits about bigger fret wire. Well worth the cost as far as I’m concerned.

[Ed Goist]

+1 on large fretwire making a huge difference!
I really like the 80X40 wire (which I have on my e-mando), but my favorite mandolin wire is 80X43 (like the Jescar 43080 EVO). I have this on both of my acoustic mandolins. Awesome playability!
For those interested in fretwire size comparisons, here is Paul Hostetter's excellent fretwire chart.

[Ted Eschliman]

Ditto here. Recently refretted my Arrow F4 with Dunlop 6230. Very happy.
StewMac 147 was also a candidate.

[KanMando]

+1 on the Collings fret wire. Whenever I visited Mass Street I played as many mandolins as I could, and I always thought the Collings frets felt just right. When it was time for a fret job on my Eastman 815V, I asked Mike Horan at Mass Street to use the Collings wire. It made an amazing improvement in playability and tone. I think the tone improvement was due to two things: more positive or sure fretting on the left hand, and the bridge having to be raised slightly to compensate for the new nut and higher frets.

Bob

[Ed Goist]

Oh, one more comment...
Max Girouard is building me an electric tenor guitar and I'm having him use the Stew-Mac 155 (80X50) wire on it.
Because of the longer fret stretches on the 22 7/8" scale of the tenor guitar, the slightly taller wire should allow for easier, cleaner fretting in the "northern half" of the fret segments on the board.

[robert.najlis]

I find the Collings fret wire too wide. Especially as I go up the neck, I start to run out of room to put my fingers in.

[pfox14]

Standard mando wire that I get from LMI is .063" wide, which I believe is the same as what Gibson uses, but I may be wrong.

[Tom Haywood]

Just redid two of mine with the Stew Mac 147, which is .080 x .040. I did the A model first and worried that it might be too tall for my tastes, but a thorough leveling took it down just right. I love it on the F, and it seems to be holding up well to a lot of play. Getting ready to put it on an old bowl back that is getting a new fingerboard, nut and bridge anyway. May be a little tricky because the tang depth is half the thickness of the 1/8" fingerboard.

[Ed Goist]

As a fan of large frets, just a quick 'hats off' to JBovier and Jeff Cowherd.
I believe that JBovier is the only "sub $1,000 producer" who uses large frets (80X40) on all his mandolins (even the Army-Navy).
No financial interest on my part.
Based on what I assume is a minimal cost difference between the various fretwires, I can't understand why Kentucky, Loar, and Eastman don't use the larger wire.

[Schlegel]

I can't understand why Kentucky, Loar, and Eastman don't use the larger wire.

Cause' it ain't no part 'o nuthin.

[Ed Goist]

Cause' it ain't no part 'o nuthin.

Very well said!
Actually this makes great sense when one considers the overall mandolin market in the US, and the standard features one would want to offer to make one's product as attractive as possible to the largest group of potential customers.
It's exactly why the tobacco sunburst F5 is almost every producer's flagship mandolin.

[hank]

Not to be a Nay Sayer here but Some of us prefer small frets. I've had both at the same time and grew to prefer the smaller frets. The reason is playing style. The big frets & radius shine for me when making more complex chords,etc. that I think guitars do better anyway. Standard guitar tuning has been designed with chord making more natural for the hand than tuning in fifths. Granted smaller frets are more dependent on a good setup but with one they require no more pressure than your mongo frets. I recently got a 1923 F4 that has a dream neck newly setup with tiny stainless frets. I absolutely am thrilled with this setup and can't imagine ruining it with Mongo Banjo Frets.

[woodwizard]

Wow Henry! Congrats on getting the F4! Any pics to share?

[hank]

Hey Mike, Thanks, yes I snagged a great one from Ken Waltham. I really like this one. I'm having trouble attaching the photos with my iPad. Our laptop died but I can email you later with photos. Going out now but will PM you.

[pefjr]

Just out of curiosity , what's the cost of a fret job?

[jim simpson]

From Sim Daley's site:

Plane, re-fret and set up.........$ 350.00 (plus $50.00 for bound fretboard)

Add $50.00 for a bone nut.

[Ben Milne]

I can't understand why Kentucky, Loar, and Eastman don't use the larger wire.

I think The Loar use bigger wire, maybe not considered large but bigger than Kentucky IME.
I tend to think it does help with playability, though it only takes a warm up to adjust to small differences when swapping instruments.

[macjansson]

The Loar does indeed use bigger wire. Don't know the exact size but noticeably bigger than standard mandolin wire.

[frenchquarterfly]

. . . . I’ve had the Gibson back for about a week and the new wire made a stunning difference! It takes much less pressure to play and I don’t have to be right below the fret to play a clean note. . . . . . . . . . . So that’s my two bits about bigger fret wire. Well worth the cost as far as I’m concerned.

'Great account . . . w/a euphoric result, Phil !
If you'd care to, kindly share w/us what's the recent going PRICE for that kind of fret wire modification alone.
Also: does your instrument happen to have a radiused fretboard ?

[Phil Vinyard]

My Gibson does have a radiused fretboard, no binding.

Can't find my receipt, but it was somewhere between $450 & $500. Some of that was also the cost of a new bone nut.

[terzinator]

I love the Collings wire, too. (Had a refret done last November and we used the same sized wire, but I think it was from Stew-Mac.)

However, it wears really fast. Maybe I have a death grip (or I've been working too hard on fiddle tunes), but it was showing wear after a few weeks, and the grooves are deep enough now I'm already thinking I should refret it again.

When I do, I'm going with the EVO wire from Jescar. Available in the same gauge, but lasts essentially forever.

[Fstpicker]

As a owner of a "The Loar" LM-400VS, it does indeed use larger fret wire. I also do not know the measurements, but perhaps I'll find out from them.

Jeff

[pefjr]

From Sim Daley's site:

Plane, re-fret and set up.........$ 350.00 (plus $50.00 for bound fretboard)

Add $50.00 for a bone nut.

how does that compare to replacing with a new fretboard with new frets?

[Bill Snyder]

Why would you want to replace the fretboard? If the one on it is in good shape and you just need frets why waste a good piece of ebony needlessly?

[pefjr]

Why would you want to replace the fretboard? If the one on it is in good shape and you just need frets why waste a good piece of ebony needlessly?

I don't, just wondered if it might be cheaper. The old fretboard can be recycled.