novice needs help with Gm7sus2 and Eb(addF)!!!

[fredmt-2]

If any of you guys can give me examples of how these chords are laid out I would surely appreciate it (different voicings of the same chord, too).

I can't seem to find them anywhere!!http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/im...andosmiley.gif

[llg]

you should be able to find these chords for guitar (if you play any guitar) then you could convert that to mandolin. My question is why would you need these chords for mandolin? Just curious.

[Jared Heddinger]

The Eb is a little easier. It’s just Eb, G, Bb and F. There’s definitely a bunch more possibilities for this one. 0111 or 3511 just off the top of my head. If you know your way around the fretboard, it will be easy to find the actual possibilities.

[mrmando]

Gm7sus2 is A Bb D F. 2011 would work.
Eb (add F) is Eb G Bb F. Try 0111.

My question is why would you need these chords for mandolin?

Why not?

My guess is that the OP is trying to learn a certain song that contains these chords, so he wants to know how to play them. Nothing wrong with that.

[mrmando]

Well, Gm7sus2 should have G, Bb, D, F, and an A in it.

The suspended note (A) would replace the root (G), methinks. So you don't actually need the G. Or is a sus2 supposed to replace the third (Bb)?

[mrmando]

Well, Gm7sus2 should have G, Bb, D, F, and an A in it. Since you only (effectively) have four strings you’re going to have to cut one of the notes out. Possible versions of the chord could be 0001, 0011, 0351, or 0211.

Well, 0011 is just a Gm7 with no suspension, and 0211 includes an E natural, which isn't part of the chord ...

[Jared Heddinger]

The suspended note (A) would replace the root (G), methinks. So you don't actually need the G. Or is a sus2 supposed to replace the third (Bb)?

Hmm...I didn’t really think of that. I was just jotting down the “notes”. I’m pretty sure it replaces the third because I’ve never actually seen a minor suspended chord. So it would be G, A, D, F then?

[Appalachia]

Gm7sus2
0 0 0 1 (it's really that simple)

Eb(addF):
3 5 6 1 (the previously mentioned 0 1 1 1 would also work)
My question on this chord though, Is if it is supposed to be an add2 or an add9? Both of these tabs are more of an add 9 since the F is placed on top.

That said, when you're dealing with complex chords, you often need to account for a leading tone, so it's hard to say what would work best for you without more context.

[Appalachia]

And for those that have been questioning, a suspended chord replaces the third with either a second (sus2) or fourth (sus4). If you still want the third then you should do an add2 or add4, not a sus.

[Appalachia]

Gm7sus2 is A Bb D F. 2011 would work.

The notes in Gm7sus2 are G A D F. The second (A) is in place of the third (Bb) not the root (G).

[Phil Goodson]

Does that imply that a Gm7sus2 = G7sus2 ? i.e. the minor reference is irrelevant? Looks like that to me.

[JonZ]

Good eye Phil. A minor would definitely require a b3. I think it means that it should have been written "Gm7add2", if that intense glowing guy is correct.

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

Does that imply that a Gm7sus2 = G7sus2 ? i.e. the minor reference is irrelevant? Looks like that to me.

Technically, yes, the "minor" is irrelevant for that chord since the minor third is missing.

However, if the piece is in Eb for example, the natural 7th chord would be a G minor 7, and the sus is an alteration to that. If you were to play a solo over the chord progression, the Gmin7sus2 would suggest a different approach than the G7sus2, because one would imply use of Bb, the other use of B naturals.

The thing to remember about "sus chords" is that they are related to voice leading. The sus note is a delay of resolution to the third of the chord. And if the resolution occurs, the next chord will tell you whether it is major, minor, 7th, etc. However, sometimes the sus chord doesn't resolve. So then how to know what the underlying third is supposed to be? Therefore a reason to include the minor in the chord designation, even though strictly speaking the third is not sounded.

Cheers
MRT

[Ed Goist]

Great discussion.
For those of us struggling to learn chord theory from scratch these threads can be immensely helpful.
Before I discovered the mandolin, and the Cafe, I only thought of chords as shapes on a guitar fretboard.
Thanks very much.

[Wolfmanbob]

Simplify!!!

[Phil Goodson]

Technically, yes, the "minor" is irrelevant for that chord since the minor third is missing.

However, if the piece is in Eb for example, the natural 7th chord would be a G minor 7, and the sus is an alteration to that. If you were to play a solo over the chord progression, the Gmin7sus2 would suggest a different approach than the G7sus2, because one would imply use of Bb, the other use of B naturals.
......

Thanks Mark. It stretches my brain, but I see what you're saying. Makes sense as a 'marker' to the soloist at least.

[bobby bill]

My question on this chord though, Is if it is supposed to be an add2 or an add9? Both of these tabs are more of an add 9 since the F is placed on top.

In my mind, I would consider the F in an E-flat chord the 9th. And if it is the 9th, it is the 9th regardless of voicing. It is also my understanding that when the chord is described as "add 9th" you are being told that the 7th is not necessarily included, since it would be implied otherwise.

[fredmt-2]

Thanks, everybody for your great help on this. Just a song I've enjoyed for years and thought I'd take a crack at it.
"Be Free" written by Jim Messina and he plays the mandolin parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I3pl...eature=related

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

Thanks, everybody for your great help on this. Just a song I've enjoyed for years and thought I'd take a crack at it.
"Be Free" written by Jim Messina and he plays the mandolin parts.

Appalachia has the exact chords you want in post #8:
0001 and 0111

Cheers
MRT

[llg]

My guess is that the OP is trying to learn a certain song that contains these chords, so he wants to know how to play them. Nothing wrong with that.[/QUOTE]

I did not say there was anything wrong with it, just wondered why a novice would want to know these chords. Actually it's quite impressive to me...I know lots of chords on guitar and several on mandolin but theory is not my strong suit. I am more of a listen and learn it kind of player.

[mrmando]

I did not say there was anything wrong with it, just wondered why a novice would want to know these chords.

You didn't say anything about him being a novice, but you did express curiosity about why he'd want to play those chords on the mandolin. This is the sort of comment made by guitarists who regard the mandolin as inferior.

[mrmando]

"Be Free" written by Jim Messina and he plays the mandolin parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I3pl...eature=related

Interesting instrumentation on that one! Oboe, clarinet, something that sounds like pipa or koto, a couple of Irish fiddles, and a kitchen sink, not to mention the mandolin. Is this on our growing list of pop/rock songs featuring the mandolin?

[journeybear]

Let me check ... Yep!

I thought Post #2 was a bit snarky, too - the guy is just asking for a bit of help, after all. But no need to make a big thing about it. I appreciate learning these things, too.

[llg]

I have some chill pills for any one that needs them. Sorry if my response sounded snarky. It was not meant to be. Just a simple question from a simple guy. Besides I commplimented the original poster for wanting to learn such chords being a self-proclaimed novice.

[Appalachia]

It is also my understanding that when the chord is described as "add 9th" you are being told that the 7th is not necessarily included, since it would be implied otherwise.

I was simply generalizing, so, yes, I totally agree with this.

In my mind, I would consider the F in an E-flat chord the 9th. And if it is the 9th, it is the 9th regardless of voicing.

While this could be said to be true to some degree, the difference between an add2 and an add9 gives you more information on the intended voicing. In an add2, for instance, you wouldn't want to have the F (in this case) on top, but in an add9 you would, generally speaking; this isn't an exact thing though, because there are so many voicing options.

There's also the fact that an add2 implies that we're going outside of normal tertiary chord structure, so an add2 is much more likely to have two notes (root&2nd and/or 2nd&3rd) that are a 2nd(harmonically) away from each other, where as an add9 is more likely to space the F (in this case) at least a 3rd(harmonically) away from other notes.