new fretboard, old violin

[jimdandy]

Is it possible that someone may have a part i need? I am working on an oldy and seems like everytime I fix a fret with new wood, the next fret cracks or splits (its old ebony and very brittle) the mandolin has a 13" vsl and 17 frets, from nut to oval the wood is 8 3/8' long, its 1" at the nut and 1 1/2" at the oval, and 1/8 in thick, i want to increase this to at least 3/16 or 1/4" and use new frets. The old flat wire ones are expensive. does anyone have a fretboard like this just off an old broken instrument? Or something similar i could work with? give me a shout and a good price asap. thanks jd
YOU NEVER KNOW TIL YOU ASK!

[Jim Garber]

jimdandy: it is sort of hard to understand what you are looking. I am guessing that you are looking to replace the fretboard with new wood and a thicker piece of ebony? I don't quite understand what you are referring to in the thread title about "old violin."

Is this a bowlback? You could have Allen's make you one to order since the scale length is 13". I have heard that you could buy a std 13 7/8" pre-slotted one and cut it off at the first fret slot and have the correct scale. Perhaps someone who knows for sure can chime in here.

In general tho, people post their needs/wants in the free classifieds.

[Bill Snyder]

The difference in length from the 1st fret to the 2nd fret on a 13 7/8" fret board is 11/16" so if you cut a 13 7/8" scale board at the #1 fret you are left with a 13 3/16" scale length.

[jimdandy]

I don't know why I said 'violin'. It is an old bowlback. I didn't mean too. I have never worked on a violin, never owned one. Just a slip of the mind. sorry, thanks for the shout. jd

[jimdandy]

the scale is 13 in. and the wood, the actual board is 8 3/8 in. so i think I could cut the board of at the oval and be ok. thanks jd

[Jim Garber]

The difference in length from the 1st fret to the 2nd fret on a 13 7/8" fret board is 11/16" so if you cut a 13 7/8" scale board at the #1 fret you are left with a 13 3/16" scale length.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought Allen had listed some recut boards with 13" scale at one time. Now it looks like it would be custom... unless it was some other site. Do you know of any, Bill? I have quite a few bowlbacks that would benefit.

[Bill Snyder]

Jimdandy, If you are going to shorten the scale length of a pre-slotted fretboard it has to come off of the top end and it has to be cut off at a fret slot. After that you can cut it to length so it does not go over your oval hole.
In answer to your question Jim I do not no of anywhere to get 13 inch, pre-slotted fretboards without custom ordering them.

[Jim Garber]

Here was the thread I read all that. Dave Cohen mentions cutting off a std board but he does say that it will be longer than 13" scale.

LMII sells preslotted fretboards in a number of different lengths. You can also use the available lengths to make almost any custom length, or at least to get acceptably close to it. Calculate all of the fret positions for the scale length you want, and also for the similar available scale lengths. By comparing, you may be able to use an available scale length to get your custom scale length. For example, if you want a Neapolitan mandolin scale length of about 13"+, you can take a board slotted to the usual 13 7/8" scale length, cut it off at the first fret position so that the location of what was formerly the first fret is now the nut. That will give you a fretboard with a scale length of just over 13". LMII will also cooperate with you by starting the slotting of a given scale length at a higher fret, and slotting out to a higher fret number (e.g., 35) to give you the board you want. You have to do the calculations first, though, in order to know and communicate what you want. Math is power!

[Jim Garber]

Actually Allen seems quite reasonable esp if you buy 10 custom fretted ones. The cost of 10 ebony boards is $70 + $5 each for custom fret slots so each board would be $12 -- not so bad (I think). I prob have 10 bowlbacks that need new boards -- now all i need it time to deal with them.

[jimdandy]

I must have ask for something more custom, they wanted $57.oo for 1 ebony B grade slotted fingerboard. that incl. shipping but still it alot more than $12.oo. I know volume helps but I don't really need but one right now. They seemed like the kind of people i will do business with in the future though, Ms Donna Walker got right back to me. I'm sure i must have been asking for a custom board. The more I think about it I'm sure I can cut and slot and fret my own board, I have done it before, but on a new build, not a repair job. I was really more concerned about the old flat wire frets, it seems they actually cut the 1/8" ebony through to the neck. Like cutting each piece of wood between each fret!! and maybe they did, its really old i think. thanks again jd

[Bill Snyder]

Was the $57.00 for a fretted board or just slotted?
Looking at their website it looks like the $57 for board, setup and slotting is still less than what they list.

[Jim Garber]

i was looking at 10 boards but it looks like ebony blanks are 2 for $18 (don't know if they would sell one but it might be good to have an extra anyway in case something goes wrong) + $10 each for slotting + job charge of $25 = $63 for two of them. I guess they quoted what they quoted.

It sounds like you are working with bar frets. One of the best sites for detailed advice on various luthier dilemmas is Frank Ford's frets.com and he has a detailed exposition on working on a fretboard with bar frets. Granted, it is a guitar but much of the same techniques apply.

On these vintage bowlbacks, however, I think they just made the fretboards a little too thin. I doubt they put them in in pieces. Frankly I think you are on the right track with slotting your own board and replacing the old one with a slightly thicker one. I would not go too thick tho and would prob just put in new frets (no bar frets) on the new board to make it playable.

[Bill Snyder]

If you use a board much thicker you will need a new nut (might even if you go just little thicker) and you might need a new bridge or at least a new saddle.

[jimdandy]

bill, when you say new bridge and saddle, what do you mean, this bowlback has a 1 piece bridge sittin on the canter of the top? I have already ;urchased an adjustable rosewood bridge, it will sit a little higher so I can increase the thickness of the board and raise the nut to compensate, hope to have about 1/8 action? and hope it doesn't lose its semetry and cause us to say 'what in the world happened here!!' thanks jd

[Bill Snyder]

Well it sounds like you are getting a bridge anyway so you have that issue covered.

[samskey]

Hello
I'm just coming up upon this problem wanting to build my own bowlback, I can't find a pre-cut fretboard or a template for 330mm (13") anywhere. I also can't find evidence for a single 352mm (13 7/8") bowlback ever having been built?!

I think I may have found a solution in buying a 660mm classic guitar template and cutting it off at the 12th fret as long as it's got a reasonable number of frets, about 29, that leaves me 17. Can anyone think of a reason why this wouldn't work?

Cheers
Sam Skey

[Pete Jenner]

I had to check on the fret calc but yes I think that should work as long as 17 frets is enough for you.

[Bill Snyder]

Hello
I'm just coming up upon this problem wanting to build my own bowlback, I can't find a pre-cut fretboard or a template for 330mm (13") anywhere. I also can't find evidence for a single 352mm (13 7/8") bowlback ever having been built?!

I think I may have found a solution in buying a 660mm classic guitar template and cutting it off at the 12th fret as long as it's got a reasonable number of frets, about 29, that leaves me 17. Can anyone think of a reason why this wouldn't work?

Cheers
Sam Skey

Sam you can print a template for any length fretboard you need using wfret by Jon Whitney or FretFind2D.
I was going to go ahead and upload a pdf file of a 13" scale fretboard but I am having some trouble with the file type.

[Pete Jenner]

Great resources Bill.

[Tom Haywood]

FWIW, I made a fret board for a bowl back last year because I couldn't find a 13" scale pre-cut board. I used a blank from Allens. I had to find someone to plane it from 5/16" to to 3.5 mm (just over 1/8"), but that's because I ordered it at 5/16" in case I wanted to radius it. Laying out the slots wound up being easier to do using a mm ruler than using a paper template, but required magnifying glasses, a steady hand and a very sharp pencil. I was happy with the results, but doing it again I would buy their pre-slotted 12.978" board. The additional distance to the bridge to get good intonation would have worked out perfectly with this, and the CNC cut slots would be more accurate. Last year it was $55 for this in ebony, including shipping, versus $18 for the blank, $3 for planing, and several hours to slot it. Worth it, I think.