Paying for Set-up

[hedgehog]

This is a run-on thread from another thread that basically was another opportunity to complain about yet another poorly setup "Online Mandolin". But I would like to take this in another direction, this is not an opportunity to complain about a specific instrument or product. So here's the meat of the subject........

I purchased an instrument on line absolutely knowing that I would need a professional set-up. It was my opinion that the local Luther would be glad to have me pay for his set-up, seeing how it would be essentially pure profit with no need for him to pay for inventory. I have frequented the shop, I have bought many sets of strings, straps, picks, tuners and refered many people to his door. The odd part was, the Luther/shop owner was not at all happy to set-up my new mandolin. He did it alright, but you could tell that he wasn't happy about it. I couldn't help but wonder why. If I'd inherited the mandolin or purchased a used one that needed a decent set-up would it have been any different?

So, please tell me, if I am willing, even glad to pay for a set-up, why was the shop owner apparently upset with setting up my mandolin?

[Steve L]

You need to ask him. Then find another shop.

[sunburst]

Did you take it to a repair shop or a retail store? If the main focus of the establishment is retail, it's probably because you could have bought from him and he would have made more money. Sure, he gets paid for doing the set up, but that's not a big money maker for anyone, let alone a retail store, and he's not there to work on products bought elsewhere, he's there to sell stuff.
If it is a repair shop and not a store, maybe he just didn't like the product or would rather have been doing something other than finishing some manufacturers work.
If you had inherited the mando or bought it used it may well have been different. That wouldn't necessarily represent a lost sale to the retailer, unless he handles lots of used instruments.

[hedgehog]

Steve - Now that is much easier said than done now isn't it. The shop owner wasn't rude, but it was easy enough to see that he wasn't happy about it. There was a comment to the effect, "Okay I'll do it because I know you'll be in for strings and other items." The other thread alluded to this attitude not being especially rare in shops. I could see it if I was rude or demanding, this was far from the case. Admittedly it did set me back a bit, but it hasn't stopped me from contuing to buy from them.

[hedgehog]

The store sells new and used and vintage instruments, along with general repairs. He doesn't handle the product line I purchased and doesn't display mandolins in the price range I purchased. Recently I came to understand that he does have more expensive instruments but you have to ask.

In the other thread I mentioned there was mention that many instrument shops actually make their money on set-ups. The set-up I got was well done and fairly inexpensive, so inexpensive in fact that it only felt right to purchase some strings and a few other items from them at the same time.

[Steve L]

I don't see the issue. I've had this experience where someone doesn't want to do a repair and I always ask why. It's a perfectly reasonable question that can be asked in a tactful way. When I worked in retail and a job came in we didn't want to or couldn't handle , we'd tell the customer why. And if someone who has a shop that does repairs doesn't want to work on my stuff, I find someone who does. It doesn't have to be confrontational, but I still think it makes more sense to ask your guy about his attitude than to ask the forum. He's the only one who knows.

[Barry Wilson]

Some people play the store loyalty card and almost consider it treason to go elsewhere. you see it in all forms of hobbies.

[Mandolin Mick]

I once called a local luthier who did repairs & setups. I asked a question about the positioning of the bridge in relation to the F holes and he hung up on me! He thought I was picking his mind to get info so I could do it myself, but I was just asking a question. Needless to say I put a big X on him ...

[Big Joe]

In our shop we don't really care where the instrument came from. We are happy to help our customers find a really good mandolin, and we do quite a bit of that but that is not the focus of our shop. Repairs, restorations, and custom built instruments is our main focus. We do so many mandolin repairs that cover everything from basic setup to complete restorations and we just love working on them. The retail end is really just a service and even everything we sell will be setup before it leaves the shop. It is just what we do. It is included in our price (which usually means it is free to the customer).

Some shops who are not repair oriented would be upset for two reasons. First, they did not make the sale. Second, they may not be that excellent at the repair work and don't like doing it for that reason. If you get enough customers complain because the setup was not right then they have a tendency to not want to do them. Just my opinion.

[Canoedad]

Most businesses don't like helping their competition. If your shop sell instruments, he's helping his competition by fixing yours for them. He may be helping himself too. But not wanting to help your competitors is just survival instinct, right or wrong.

[MikeEdgerton]

Any retailer that does repair and setup work should be looking at instruments walking in their doors as business they wouldn't have had otherwise. If you're not making money on your repair and setup work then you need to take a hard look at your business plan. I find it amazing that a dealer would cop an attitude because he or she didn't sell the instrument. I buy my cars from a salesman that is in a dealership about 50 miles from my house because we've been friends for years. The dealer that does the warranty and repair work on those same cars that is closer to me never seems to have a problem when I walk in the door. I can guarantee that he's making money on what he does. That's probably the model these guys should be emulating.

[Paul Kotapish]

I guess we're blessed with an embarrassment of riches here in the Bay Area, but I have no tolerance for snooty, grumpy, or rude behavior in any retail shop for any reason. If I walk in the shop, my expectation is that I will be treated courteously at the very least or better yet like a valued customer--regardless of my purchase history.

I have more-or-less stopped visiting a well-known acoustic shop where I have spent many thousands of dollars over the years because I feel treated more like a nuisance rather than a welcomed patron whenever I go in there, and I've heard the same complaint from numerous other musicians. I know the owners and and have always had cordial dealings with them one-on-one, but the staff have never been the least bit welcoming or friendly. I don't expect them to know that I've purchased instruments and taught classes and performed there in the past--it shouldn't matter in the least.

I worked in an acoustic-music shop for a few years back in the '70s, and we prided ourselves on welcoming everyone and showing appreciation to anyone who walked in the door, even if it was just to browse or buy a 25¢ pick. And we were happy to provide set-up service on any instrument that came in the door, too.

In today's retail environment where online retailers are threatening brick-and-mortar shops, friendly, personal service and good repair work are two resources you can't get through Amazon.

[JEStanek]

I had a set up person local to where I worked. He was ridiculously slow and I will never recommenced him again. I have a friend who is doing some set up work I would happily use and recommend. When I first was getting started, I had my set ups done by a guy who ran an electric guitar, skateboard, cd shop. He had some mandolins and ukes (vintage stuff) on the walls and did a great job and was kind and helpful about letting an absolute ignoramus know what he was doing.

Were I in your shoes, I wouldn't use that shop for my maintenance (set up) needs unless I really had to. I mean a basic set up is 1-2 hours work (nut, bridge, maybe a tweak of the truss rod) unless more parts are needed or the instrument is in really bad shape. That should garner $40-70. which isn't that bad of a deal for someone. Bad customer service should be a business killer.

Jamie

[coletrickle]

I knew a guy who ran a small music shop and his motto was that every time I or someone else came in to the store he had to get them to walk out purchasing something. Anything. And the only reason this worked for him is because it didn't matter what you came in to buy, you got good service without a hint of "wondering" where you have been buying your instruments. People wanted to spent money because they got good help. He made it a long time without an online presence at all before retiring. The kid who bought the store from him didn't have the same approach (for instance not even acknowledging you when you came in for strings) and he went out of business. I'm not saying that is the reason, but I am saying that I never bought anything from him after an unpleasant encounter.

[rgray]

I purchased an instrument on line absolutely knowing that I would need a professional set-up. It was my opinion that the local Luther would be glad to have me pay for his set-up, seeing how it would be essentially pure profit with no need for him to pay for inventory.

In the other thread I mentioned there was mention that many instrument shops actually make their money on set-ups.

I think your mistake was to form an opinion on what "your" luthier would do based on what another member posted about other shops.

[Adam Sweet]

The guy has his nose out of joint because he thinks you should have bought it from him.

[MikeEdgerton]

The guy has his nose out of joint because he thinks you should have bought it from him.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the OP in as much said that in the original post.

[Mike Bunting]

The guy has his nose out of joint because he thinks you should have bought it from him.

The OP stated that the shop did not sell the brand that he bought.

[Stephen Perry]

There may be reasonable limits to the store-crossing game. Two incidents relate to purchases from a store near me that is well known for very low markups.

1. Fellow played instruments in my store extensively, causing minor wear that required work to buff out. Bought instrument without negotiation or comment to me at the other store. Then brought that instrument to me for setup, while whining about the charges. That seemed a bit out of line. I didn't comment about any of it, I didn't raise my prices for him, I just charged what I normally do.

2. Several people purchased instruments from other shops - ones that I sell - but brought them to me for warranty evaluation and return. I end up setting up the new instruments. I really have to bite my tongue on that one, but limit my expressed concerns to the distributor about the shops not holding up their brand support. I don't get paid for those setup jobs. That isn't right, either.

I doubt the customers in those instances really thought much about what they were doing.

But otherwise, I can't see any problem bringing in instruments purchased elsewhere. So long as one isn't grumpy about doing normal jobs, or doing someone else's work free, shouldn't be a problem!

[Dagger Gordon]

It's one thing to buy an instrument somewhere else if your local shop doesn't sell that product.

However, we have all heard of people trying out guitars in a shop, deciding they like a particular model, buying it cheaper online somewhere and then wondering why it doesn't seem so good as the one they tried in the shop.

If they then bring it into the original shop looking for a set-up, I'm not surprised the shopkeeper might be a bit hacked off.

The same thing happens in other areas, not just music, of course.

[Big Joe]

We get people who buy stuff from just about everywhere that end up in our shop complaining that the instrument just does not work right. If it is something simple just to make it playable I will at times just do it. That does not include a full setup for free, but a tweak is not a big deal. I also tell them it needs a good setup and almost always we end up with the job in the near future. We also end up doing other repair work for many of them and often become the place they purchase instruments. A little service can go a long way and if the consumer is satisfied you can help them then you may have a customer for life. Where the initial contact came from is secondary. There is not enough profit in many of the instruments to worry about a lost sale. I would rather have the repair work anyway.

[Fretbear]

I'm a locksmith; sometimes people go around me and get their hardware and it's installation done by someone else, as they figure they can save money on it that way. Almost inevitably, eventually I end up having to adjust or repair that lock at a later date. Those customers get charged a special rate If they had have had me install it in the first place and it need adjustment or repair afterwards (almost unheard of) it would be free of charge.
I am not defending music stores, I can't stand most of them for the reasons the other posters listed.

[allenhopkins]

Lots of people reporting varying levels of dissatisfaction with the way they've been treated, bringing an instrument in for a set-up at a shop where they didn't buy it. Most direct explanation is that the shop owner wishes the instrument had been purchased from him/her. I worked part-time in an instrument store years ago, and there was an undercurrent of resentment about customers who tried to buy instruments at the cheapest possible price, bought them elsewhere, then brought them to us to "fix" things that a good instrument dealer would have adjusted before selling the instruments to the consumer.

So, understandable, if not admirable. The one thing I would contribute to the discussion, is that it really doesn't hurt to have an honest dialog with the shop proprietor, about his/her attitude toward the matter. In the OP's case, this is a store he frequents regularly for supplies and accessories. Presumably the proprietor values his continued patronage. Perhaps the store has a policy preferring to adjust and repair instruments purchased there. I know when an instrument's brought into the dealers where I usually shop, the first question often is, "Did you buy this here?" I have a feeling those instruments go to the head of the queue.

When you have posters saying, "I shopped at this store for years, but won't go there any more because I'm treated as if my business isn't valued," I would ask, "Have you talked to the proprietor(s) about this?" No good business owner wants to lose a steady customer. Many times the proprietor may not be aware that store staff are alienating potential customers.

We're not talking Wal-Mart here. Most of these businesses are small enough that they know their steady customers, and they want them to keep coming back. I'm on a first-name basis with the dealers in my city (well, not with Guitar Center, but I seldom go there), and consider them friends as well as "business associates." If there's an issue, better to bring it up and discuss it, rather than walk out the door feeling unhappy.

[hedgehog]

This isn't really going in quite the direction intended. My luthier wasn't all that bad to work with on this and they aren't snobbish. I did get the impression that they though I expected them to do the work for free when in reality I expected to pay what ever they needed for the setup. It got a little dicey when asked what they do for their normal set-up. My intention was simply to know their approach and if needed to request additional services. The key here is that paying was never a question. For many reasons I actually wanted to send some money their way.

By-the-way - I’ve never been a pest to them, sitting and playing their instruments for extended periods of time has never been something I’ve been known to do.

Rgray – asking them to do a set-up had nothing to do with anything written on a forum. I wonder if it would have been better to say that I bought it from a friend. Lying has never been one of my strong suites though.

also:

This really isn't about the shop that I use. In the previous thread the discussion started down a road unrelated to the original thread. Since I had experienced something similar The thought occurred to me that this could be an opportunity to understand how to receive this service without causing hard feelings. So, is there an approach to requesting a set-up that will set most luthiers at ease?

[jesserules]

This isn't really going in quite the direction intended. My luthier wasn't all that bad to work with on this and they aren't snobbish. I did get the impression that they though I expected them to do the work for free when in reality I expected to pay what ever they needed for the setup. It got a little dicey when asked what they do for their normal set-up. My intention was simply to know their approach and if needed to request additional services. The key here is that paying was never a question. For many reasons I actually wanted to send some money their way.

By-the-way - I’ve never been a pest to them, sitting and playing their instruments for extended periods of time has never been something I’ve been known to do.

Rgray – asking them to do a set-up had nothing to do with anything written on a forum. I wonder if it would have been better to say that I bought it from a friend. Lying has never been one of my strong suites though.

also:

This really isn't about the shop that I use. In the previous thread the discussion started down a road unrelated to the original thread. Since I had experienced something similar The thought occurred to me that this could be an opportunity to understand how to receive this service without causing hard feelings. So, is there an approach to requesting a set-up that will set most luthiers at ease?

"Hi, my mandolin needs a setup, how much do you charge for that?"