Best of both worlds (acoustic/electric) in one mandolin?

[JoshH]

Hi all,

This is my first time posting here but I’ve come across a lot of helpful information on these forums over the years. I’m looking to make my first big mandolin upgrade and I’m hoping you might be able to offer some advice as I’m looking for something seemingly hard to find.

I play mandolin in the orchestral rock band Miracles of Modern Science. You can hear us here (http://bit.ly/dogyear) if you want to check out my sound and style -- I'm not much of a bluegrass player, so hopefully it isn’t too offensive! Right now I play a Fender FM-52E acoustic-electric mandolin which leaves a lot to be desired in terms of playability, electric tone, and acoustic tone/volume, but I’ve made do over the years. On recordings, my sound is a hybrid of the mic’ed acoustic sound and a dirtier amped sound providing some grit behind it. Live I just plug in the mandolin to my Fender Blues Jr. and generally keep it a little dirtier.

I’m looking for a versatile mandolin that has a good acoustic sound as well as a good electric sound that can be driven through my tube amp -- not just a louder recreation of the acoustic sound, though it would be nice to be able to switch between and more rocking electric sound and a more acoustic electric sound. So you can see why it might hard to find what I’m looking for. It seems like options with better acoustic properties don’t have as much versatility when plugged into an amp and pedals, and emando options made for plugging in risk sounding a little un-mandolin-like and aren’t going to have much acoustic volume or tone. And my dream combination of both might make the instrument a sort of jack of all trades, but a master of none.

Before I decide to land more on one side or the other, does anyone know of a mandolin that would give me the best of both worlds? I’m hoping to spend around $1500 or less. Also, any thoughts on a few of the options I’ve been considering so far?

1) A Gibson EM-150 (not sure about the acoustic tone though)
2) A hollow body Mann EM-8 (seems like this would be everything I’m looking for in an electric -- plus I hear Jon’s mandolins are works of art -- but it wouldn’t have much acoustic volume)
3) Getting a good sounding acoustic mando and adding a floating pickup (maybe a Kent Armstrong?) so that I can plug it in and get a good electric sound while maintaining the acoustic sound.
4) ... save up and buy two mandolins, one acoustic, one electric.

Thanks so much -- I’d appreciate any advice you can give me!
Josh

[JeffD]

From what I listened to, I cannot say that an accoustic sound is of any advantage. Or to say it another way, if you went all electric, I don't think you are losing much.


I love some of your lyrics:

figured that my heart would be my guide
but when I asked my heart my spleen replied
said “don't bother with your heart, he never can decide
stick with me, I'm better qualified”

[Rodney Riley]

Surrender to the MAS. Get two get two..... Check out a Schwab, John Smith or any other listed in the "Builders" section. Get one good electric and a great acoustic (Gibson, Weber, Breedlove.) (A great amp can make any instrument sound great )

Or try out a Godin A-8, love mine. NFI

[CES]

A couple of the better A/E mandos I've seen in your range are the Godin A-8 and the Ovation MM-68 (esp if you can find a US made used one). The Ovations, in particular, can be driven to crazy volumes and almost never feedback. The Godins have a surprisingly good acoustic tone, and are louder unplugged than I thought they would be prior to trying one. Neither may give you the full electric sound you're after, though.

Jon Mann's instruments seem to be spectacular, and if I were looking at a better A/E, I'd look in his direction...his solid bodies are quite nice as well. After listening to your link, you may want to invest in a better solid body or semi-hollow body (thinking along the lines of Mann), and pick up a used Godin A-8 for those times you really want amplified acoustic tone. Or, to really save some cash, get a mandobird or Goldtone 4 string solidbody and a Godin...best of both worlds, but for far less cash (probably both for < a grand if you buy used). The Godins, though relatively inexpensive, are quite well made and have a pretty comfortable neck.

But, I'm a hobbyist (who has a Fender 62SCE and a mandobird that I run through a Roland 30 Watt), so take the above for what it's worth...hopefully you'll get some fellow pros chiming in...

[Tim2723]

The problem you're going to run into is that AE mandolins exist primarily to:

A) Sound best plugged in, that is, they aren't intended to be acoustic powerhouses.

B) Their plugged in sound is designed to be a reasonable simulation of an acoustic and as such lack a lot of the electronic versatility of a solid-body instrument.

An Ovation or Godin will give you a lot of leeway for the amplified acoustic sound while a solid-body will have the electronic appeal you're after. Of those two the Ovation is the louder acoustic instrument and its electronics are considerably advanced compared to most AE production models. Still, to get where you want to go I'd recommend two instruments, each designed for their particular niche (which is to say, an actual acoustic and a solid-body electric). Unlike the AE guitar which can be surprisingly versatile, the AE mandolin seldom if ever represents the best of both worlds, but is a very specialized compromise. All just my opinion, of course.

[yarcod]

Not real experienced. Started playing mandolin 3 yrs ago. Hooked up with a cassic rock band and purchased a Michael Kelly FS-E. I find it very good plugged in and almost as good acoustically as my recently purchased Loar 700 VS with CA bridge. Got both rom Robert at Folk Musician and he is very helpful if have a problem. I highy recommend the MK.

[Markus]

Sounds like a Phoenix Jazz model would be perfect, just way over budget.

[michaelpthompson]

A couple of the better A/E mandos I've seen in your range are the Godin A-8 and the Ovation MM-68 (esp if you can find a US made used one).

Second the recommendation on the Ovation MM-68, but look around eBay or someplace for an American made one. The newer MM-68AX is made in Korea and corresponds roughly in quality to the MCS-148, their mid-range model.

As Tim says, an A/E is a compromise and doesn't do either acoustic or electric as well as a dedicated instrument. Having said that, I have found that the Ovation is nearly feedback proof, which can't be said of an acoustic with a pickup. It's also nearly impervious to weather changes and stays in tune remarkably well in a variety of conditions. And I have played mine in sessions and not been drowned out by the other instruments, so it fairly holds its own acoustically as well.

[mandroid]

havent tried one but there is an
Epiphone with a magnetic pickup not attached to the top.

pretty bling looking F5 style..

Em 150s are cool but the pickup is a good amount of mass attached to the soundboard.

have other ideas, spending your money.. but past your stated budget.

since a magnetic pickup is sensing the string passing over it,
rather than making an electric waveform from the sound board vibration,
It will feed back less ..
acoustic pickups, otoh, can turn the top of the mandolin, into a microphone.

[jab]

I've liked my Godin A-8 quite a bit. I can play it acoustically and as long as it's not being played immediately next to another acoustic mandolin, no one has EVER said "hey, that thing doesn't sound like an acoustic mandolin". Best of both worlds and sounds excellent plugged in. It's my 3rd and best experience playing mando electric. Easy to play too, great action.

[Tim2723]

The real clincher for Josh, if I understand the requirements correctly, is an instrument that has a great unplugged acoustic sound and can deliver the electric sound with special effects when plugged in. That's the hard part. The Godin is among my favorites for amplified acoustic sound as is the Ovation, but neither can really handle the electronic effects like distortion the way a solid-body can. As soon as I plug the Ovation or Godin into a pedal effect they turn into feedback monsters at everything but the most modest volumes.

Having listened a couple of times to the tunes on his site I'm now siding with Jeff: A good solid-body would be in order as the acoustic character doesn't really involve itself much in that music form.

[Rodney Riley]

Local music store recommended a Toneworks KORG AX3A, "for acoustic" pedal. It has a "Notch filter that eleminates feedback" and I have never had a feedback problem at all with it using my Godin. NFI, just glad Samuels Music here in town has some well informed people working for them.

[Treblemaker]

For many years around SF I played in an amplified Acoustic Swing Jazz / Jump Blues / Boogie Band called the Chazz Cats.
I used a Flatiron Performer F with a Fishman Bridge Piezo Pickup into an effects rig and a Mesa Boogie Mark III amp. This worked pretty well and also aloud me to have a good, satisfying sound acoustically.

This band is reforming for some upcoming bay area gigs and I will be playing 3 different mandos: An F5 with a Schertler, and 2 different Andrew Jerman Emandos > and 8 String and a 5 string. But the F5 with the Schertler works in this context and could work well for you..... You just have to find a reasonably priced Schertler Pickup which could be challenging... YMMV

[jab]

this is a funky 4 string Goldtone electric mandolin. Not sure why a 4 string instrument makes it a mandolin though.

http://www.goldtone.com/products/det...ment/439/GME-4

and a good quality You Tube video of a guy using it live in the beginning and 3:54.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGkaYpXcNbI

[mrmando]

You want a used Rigel A Plus Deluxe.

[mrmando]

Actually ... what you want is an electric solidbody mandolin that has a piezo bridge as well as magnetic pickups. That way, you get no feedback, but if you want an "acoustic" tone, you can switch to the bridge pickup.

[Tim2723]

If Godin were to add a mag pickup to their A-8, it would pretty much be ideal.

[Bob Borzelleri]

Godin A8. Like a Swiss Army Knife of Mandolins. I'll probably keep mine forever.

[Tim2723]

Just for the heck of it I started a thread in the electrics forum seeking ideas from the electronics gurus about modifying an A-8 with a magnetic pickup:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...43#post1021243

[JoshH]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the thoughts and advice! This is all very helpful. I'm curious if anyone has had any experience with Dave Wendler's MagPi pickup system. His ElectroMando seems like it would be about as good as a Mann EM-8 with magnetic and piezo pickups in a plugged in environment but would be quiet when unplugged. But really I'm curious about his MagPi pickup system which could potentially be installed as a floating pickup/pick guard onto a fully acoustic mandolin and wouldn't hamper the unplugged sound too much.

http://www.electrocoustic.com/magpi.html

Could this be what I'm looking for? Or do you think I'd still be running into feedback problems?

[mandroid]

This one :http://www.phoenixmandolins.com/jazz_model.htm

Read Wendler's note, the less resonant sound boards will not ring as much in an amplified situation,
so if that dog is easy to play, a thick top clunker is better ..

Read a few builders make a solid body out of Spruce ,
to have just a trifle resonance. but no hollow box.

[Dave Greenspoon]

You want a used Rigel A Plus Deluxe.

A HUGE +1 here!

My buddy who regularly gigs with his Eastman 915 rigged with a K&K still prefers to use my Rigel A when going for live work through a sound system...and the Eastman has a great sound. IMO, he's a smart man. The Rigel will sound fantastic in a totally acoustic setting, and sound fantastic as an A/E when amped. It won't give you the same sound as a solid-body electric, but that's not what you seem to be looking to do anyway.

The Rigel A+ does show up from time to time on the Classifieds. Even if the A +doesn't come up, Rigel can retrofit their p/u into the A Nat. I know because they did it for mine years ago.

FWIW the Godins are top notch on the E side, but IMO lack volume and ooomph unplugged.

And I wonder if Andrew Jerman might not be able to create the exact A-E box you want. It's worth giving him a shout, and likely easier than waiting for the happy day (for you!) when some Rigel owner needs to unload.

Good luck!
Dave

[mrmando]

Well, Andrew is trying to get away from doing custom work these days; he says he'd rather build what he wants to build and then sell it. When using those metal bridges, I don't know how one would go about installing a piezo pickup, but Andrew might have some ideas.

[Lee]

You've first got to answer the question to yourself of what kinds of tones you want to achieve. Kinda like I mentioned on another thread: You can't add a pick-up to a Martin guitar and make it sound like a Fender solid-body electric. And you can't un-plug your Fender and try to make it sound anything like your Martin. Halfway between, like the Godin A-8, really has character all of its' own.

[Ben Milne]

Josh, try Checking out an Epiphone MM-50E.
It's the one Mandroid referred to earlier, probably the best bet in your best of both worlds quest, while not going into the high end of pricetags.