installing internal pickup

[jim_n_virginia]

What's the easiest way to install a K&K Twin Spot. Been backing up a jazz singer lately and I need to install a pickup. I have a twin Spot thats been in a desk for a long time so it's the one I gotta install.

Any tutorials out there or any instructions. I kind pretty much know what I gotta do but I am worried about getting the pads in the right spot for an even sound.

As far as getting someone local to do it there is no one qualified or at least i would have just as good a chance as doing it right all are guitar techs around here and I can't ship my mando off cuz I need it to play all the time.

So I gotta do it.

I know I gotta drill out my endpin for the jack I can do that and not crack it.
Also I've been told about tying string around the jack and fishing it out the end pin and pull the male thread out the end pin hole and all that.

I'm worried about placing the round pads in the right place on each side of the bridge.
What do you use a wire or something to press the pads down under the bridge?

I'm working through F holes on a Fern.

[Dale Ludewig]

I just installed one last week for a customer. Yes, you have to bore out the tailblock. 1/2". I pulled the tailpiece off. If you don't, it would be very easy for a drill bit to grab the metal and the results would be disastrous. Even so, I'd go very slow and use increasing sizes of bits very carefully. I used a reamer on the tailpiece. You will also likely be putting the jack in and out a number of times before you get the length adjusted properly. I taped pickup wires together and put a string on each one to aid in getting them back out when you need to adjust the length of the jack. Back and forth, back and forth.
When you know you've got the jack right, untape the pickups from each other and get one out of each Fhole. The K&K came with some adhesive tape, a nail bent at a right angle, and some playdough-like putty. The putty is put between the nail and the bottom of the pickup. Adhesive on the top. Then each pickup goes inside pretty much inline with the bridge. Putty comes off with the nail. I got the pickup from The Mandolin Store. I was told that a drop of superglue might be necessary down the road to make sure the pickups stay put.

[Dobe]

[QUOTE=Dale Ludewig;1019307]I just installed one last week for a customer.

What Dale said, and I'll add: I twisted a little wire around both pickups to fish out as well as the endpin. The double tape was a bit confusing at 1st, (didn't read the separate leaflet that came with the pickup.) It's actually the adhesive film you're getting off, and doubling up, to adhere the transducers. My instructions showed them as placed right in between the bridge foot & edge of the F-holes; not under the feet. The nail/putty is to sneak the element into place,and gingerly snug it up. I was able to get a pinky inside to press up a little more as well (while supporting the outside area with the other hand). Sounded pretty good !

[Mandobart]

This thread, about 7 posts down is my explanation on how I've done this a variety of ways. Also, if your using the switchjack it is not necessary to take it in and out a bunch of times, follow the advice on this video, especially at ~ 3:20 for setting the correct length for your tail block. I'll repeat here that using ble tack to mount the p'ups under the soundboard has worked great here on about 10 instruments from fiddle to mandocello. I use a thin (about 0.5 mm) pad of putty. Its been holding over two years now on my old mando, yet it is easy to remove if you want to try different locations. I use a step drill bit to carefully enlarge brass tailpiece holes (with tailpiece removed, of course) and a brad point bit to drill out the wood. As always, I'll plug my favorite JJB pickups (NFI). They work just as well as K&K (I've tried both) for much less cost.

[amowry]

I install the jack a bit differently-- I desolder it, install the pickups, pull the wires out the endpin hole, resolder the jack, and install it from the outside before installing (or reinstalling) the tailpiece. I make the hole in the tailpiece just big enough so that it bottoms out on the shoulder on the jack (the hole in a Bill James tailpiece is already the right size), and then I lock the jack to the tailpiece with the external nut. This ends up being plenty secure, and the length of the jack that extends pas the tailpiece is perfect.

[Rob Grant]

Dale makes a valid point about the supplied adhesive tape and the possible future use of a "drop of superglue down the road." I often use the supplied adhesive film to find the best location for the pickups, but for a more secure, permanent setup I use a CA gel to ultimately do the job. In our humid, tropical conditions the supplied adhesive film doesn't quite make the grade. I don't like having a customer's pick up come off in the middle of a gig. Which ever adhesive you use, make sure you clean any dust or rubbish off the internal surface you plan to mount the pick up on.

[Tavy]

Another point about CA gel: the pickup becomes effectly fused to the top, and the sound is both stronger and clearer IMO than if the pickups are attached by tape.... which is not to say the taped on sound is bad at all, just that you notice the difference when switching from one to the other.

[almeriastrings]

I've been using the Tapastring jacks recently. No alteration to mandolin required.

They are a bit on the expensive side, but what you pay for in the hardware you save on the labour (and risk of damage/devaluation).

[greg_tsam]

I gave my two cents in the other thread but it wasn't very hard to do but I did use a reamer after taking off the endpin, some picks instead of a bent nail and double sided carpet tape. Sounds great.

[jim_n_virginia]

Thanks all gonna try it tomorrow evening!

[Malcolm G.]

Brief note.

I've installed 4 Internal Twins and two Western Minis (6 string and 12 string guitar).

I've used double sided tape (doubled) and CYA glue.

I've noted that the glued-on transducers are a little more prone to picking up every sound of instrument handling. (Think of when you touch the wire mesh on a microphone).

This isn't much of an issue when performing live in a group - more so when playing solo or recording.

[dunwell]

I've been using the Tapastring jacks recently. No alteration to mandolin required.

They are a bit on the expensive side, but what you pay for in the hardware you save on the labour (and risk of damage/devaluation).

+1 on the Tapastring jacks
http://www.tapastring.com/vintagejack.htm
These make a very nice install w/o modding the the endpin taper in the body. I generally use them with the PickUpTheWorld products though.

[lenf12]

So, is there a concensus or preference for using double-sided tape vs. CA glue to attach the p/u? I currently have a K&K Mandolin Twin attached to the outside (behind the bridge feet) of my '56 F-12 mandolin using the supplied double-sided tape. I haven't had the guts to take a drill and install it inside. My guitarist complains frequently about the extraneous noise from my handling and playing and has been advising that the noise would be much reduced by mounting the p/u inside the instrument. Is that anybody else's experience? What about tape vs. CA glue? I want to get rid of as much "noise" as possible (including the "noise" from the guitarist ;-). Thanks!!

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Rob Grant]

If you can stand having a bit of external jack hardware clamped to your mando, K and K also sells the same set up with an externally mounted "carpenter jack."

As far as what to use to install the pickups on the underside of the top plate, I'd go for CA gel as my adhesive of choice. Like I mentioned above, make sure the surface you bond to is clean and free of any rubbish. A dental mirror on a long stem and a small LED on a fine flexible wire will help with checking out and preparing the internal surface. The best mounting point is usually close to the F hole notch and relatively easy to reach. In general the tone bars or bracing will limit your choice of an internal position. An oval hole (eg: an F4) is usually a lot easier to deal with.

[Tavy]

So, is there a concensus or preference for using double-sided tape vs. CA glue to attach the p/u? I currently have a K&K Mandolin Twin attached to the outside (behind the bridge feet) of my '56 F-12 mandolin using the supplied double-sided tape. I haven't had the guts to take a drill and install it inside. My guitarist complains frequently about the extraneous noise from my handling and playing and has been advising that the noise would be much reduced by mounting the p/u inside the instrument. Is that anybody else's experience? What about tape vs. CA glue? I want to get rid of as much "noise" as possible (including the "noise" from the guitarist ;-). Thanks!!

Not sure about consensus, all any of us have is a little experience!

I did notice when testing my K&K's that there was a lot of handling noise if you touched/moved the wires. I haven't noticed any handling noise once they're installed inside with CA gel (or any difference in handling noise between tape and CA gel mounted pickups) - but then I don't exactly swing the instrument around much I also make sure when installing inside that the wires are constrained so they can't rattle around - couldn't say for sure how much difference this makes, but it feels like the right thing to do!

[lenf12]

Thanks Rob & Tavy. Now to work up the courage to drill out my F-12......

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Rob Grant]

Here's the K and K carpenter jack setup (photo from their website) I recently install on an F5 I built for a mate several years ago. No hole to drill or ream out and other then the added bulk to the outside of the instrument, it works a treat.

[Mandobart]

I had the carpenter jack setup on my first mando for a while. Personally I hate exposed wiring. I also found that my sleeve, or an errant strum would sometimes catch the wire and get amplified along with the good sounds. So I switched over to everything internal and much preferred it. I moved the carpenter jack onto one of my fiddles but got tired of the ugly look and difficulty in finding the exact mount location that would allow me to close my fiddle case, so I moved everything internal on it as well. The only place I may use the external carpenter location now is my Grandpa's old fiddle from the 1800's. I don't want to permanently modify it.

Also, on my oval hole mandos, running a wire out of the soundhole across a large expanse of the soundboard to an external jack looks even worse, so they are all internal as well.