Bob Taylor disses Tenors!

[multidon]

I recently read the latest copy of "Wood and Steel", Taylor's company magazine. In the "Ask Bob" column, someone asked "Have you ever considered producing a tenor guitar?". Bob answers "Steve, to be funny but also honest, that's a model we call a good idea until the 12 people who want one buy it. Now, don't be offended, or write the editor, because he works for me. But that's our inside way of saying we don't believe the market is big enough."

I think Bob underestimates the potential market. The questioner even points out the resurgence of popularity of the tenor. He also states that he bought one of Taylor's GS Minis, strung it up with only 4 strings, tuned it GDAE, and "it sounds better than any of my other tenors". I wonder how many tenors he has and what kinds?

Taylor makes a really nice guitar, no doubt. I have a 314 I really like. I would definitely consider buying one if they made it and the price was right. How many of you would buy one? They would sell more than 12 I'll wager!

[sunburst]

Let's see here... so, you're second guessing Bob Taylor's reading of his own guitar market?? Oooo kayyyyy...
I don't read that as "dissing" tenors guitars at all. I read that as: "the market is far too small to tool up to make tenor guitars because we can't sell enough to make any money on them". Keep in mind that Taylor Guitars is a big, automated factory. They run instrument models in large batches, new models require new stuff (like tooling, maybe, or software). Also keep in mind that Bob Taylor is one of the best business men running a guitar company.

[Ed Goist]

Here is the full question & answer.

[multidon]

John-
Not second guessing at all. Taylor can make whatever they want. Bob is obviously successful and has great business sense. He built that company from literally nothing to what it is today. I do think the tenor market is bigger than "12". Otherwise, if the market is so tiny, why are Gold Tone, Blueridge, and Breedlove making them? I assume they are making money. Thank you Ed for posting the article in its entirety. One important thing I left out is that Bob left the door open just a crack for a special run of GS Mini tenors someday. Chances are low, but I played a GS Mini and for a small guitar they sound great! If they ever offer a tenor version for $499 I would be first in line.

[SternART]

Kinda like asking why doesn't Gibson currently make an F4?

[martinedwards]

Martin are making them again too....

theres a Seth Lakeman sig model.

My guess is that if Martin sell a bunch at thier price point, Taylor might just jump in too.

In the mean time, us hobby luthiers will just have to keen on gathering up the crumbs!!

[mrmando]

Bob alludes to making some custom guitars for Taylor's 35th anniversary ... anybody know if tenors were among them?

I guess we just need more artists playing tenors. Neko Case, Seth Lakeman, Martyn Joseph, Ani DiFranco, Carrie Rodriguez, Warren Ellis ... fortunately, the list is growing!

[Ed Goist]

Bob alludes to making some custom guitars for Taylor's 35th anniversary ... anybody know if tenors were among them? ...snip...

No tenor - Taylor's 35th (2009) Anniversary Collection

The 35th Anniversary Collection will include the following Acoustics:
* Dreadnaught Cutaway with Electronics in Brazilian,
* GS Armrest Model in Cocobolo,
* Parlor,
* GC-12 Fret,
* GA Cutaway with Electronics 9-string,
* GS Cutaway with Electronics Baritone.
The 35th Anniversary Collection will include the following Electrics:
* Solidbody Feathered Koa,
* Solidbody Quilted Maple,
* T3 Koa,
* T3 Cocobolo,
* T3/B Koa,
* T3/B Cocobolo.

[MikeEdgerton]

I think Bob Taylor's number was in itself a joke. I read that and if you read the rest he explains why. I'm guessing that he doesn't feel he can make enough money to do the tooling up to build them. I don't think that's a dis, I think he's being realistic. We tend to think that we are a huge number of people here at the cafe but in the overall scheme of things we're a very small part of any market. Back during the folk music scare of the 60's there were inexpensive tenor guitars all over made by Harmony under the Harmony and Stella brand names and there were Kays around as well. You'd see the occasional Gibson or Martin. Why? Because one of the more popular Top 40 groups at the time had a tenor guitar player. They were on TV, they were on the radio. Every pawn shop and guitar shop had them hanging on the wall. I know, I bought several and wish I'd kept one. How many do you see these days? There really is a reason that they aren't all over and it has nothing to do with Bob Taylor not wanting to build them. You couldn't turn on the radio without hearing the Kingston Trio, you couldn't turn on TV without these guys popping up on a variety show.

[Ed Goist]

...snip...Back during the folk music scare of the 60's ...snip...

Love that phrase! It conjures black & white documentary footage of 1960s school children be taught to take shelter under their desks upon hearing the first few notes of "Kumbaya".

[MikeEdgerton]

Love that phrase! It conjures black & white documentary footage of 1960s school children be taught to take shelter under their desks upon hearing the first few notes of "Kumbaya".

I stole that line from Martin Mull.

[sunburst]

How many do you see these days?

In my whole life I can definitely remember seeing a total of two people playing tenor guitars.

[multidon]

In my whole life I can definitely remember seeing a total of two people playing tenor guitars

.

Neko Case, Seth Lakeman, Martyn Joseph, Ani DiFranco, Carrie Rodriguez, Warren Ellis

John, here are six at least! But I really think there are a bunch of us in the "closet" who don't necessarily gig with the tenor but enjoy them at home!

Back during the folk music scare of the 60's

Hey! Now you're dissing folk music in the sixties? I LOVE that stuff! I LOVE the Kingston Trio! In my opinion if that stuff had caught on better and stayed around we'd be better off. I'd rather listen to the Kingston Trio than 90 percent of what passes for popular music these days. My humble opinion anyway as a certified grumpy old man!

The tenor guitar is a surprising little instrument. It was originally invented to give out of work banjo players in the 20's and 30's a guitar they could play without having to learn new fingerings. The original purpose for them is long gone. But they had a Renaissance in the 60's due to what was pointed out above and I think there is another Renaissance going on now as mandolinists and other GDAE folks are looking to expand their tonal palette. I will be joining the new tenor social group. It will be interesting to see how many members eventually sign up.

[Ed Goist]

In my whole life I can definitely remember seeing a total of two people playing tenor guitars.

...Neko Case, Seth Lakeman, Martyn Joseph, Ani DiFranco, Carrie Rodriguez, Warren Ellis ...

John, here are six at least! But I really think there are a bunch of us in the "closet" who don't necessarily gig with the tenor but enjoy them at home!...snip...

One big omission to the list above...
The rocker in me grins widely when I think that the player who has performed on tenor guitar in front of the most people is almost certainly Wes Boland of Limp Bizkit. Borland has played his custom Ibanez long-scale tenor guitar (tuned FFBE) in front of millions during the band's many stadium performances of the song Nookie.

[EdHanrahan]

... really think there are a bunch of us in the "closet" ...

Yeah but... I think the point is that, unlike individual luthiers, Bob Taylor can't afford to sell to a closetful of customers, and he recognizes that. Try stuffing his real customer base into a closet (those 30 to 50 million guitar players) and it'd be the size of Rhode Island, plus maybe the rest of New England!!

[Ed Goist]

Though I'd love to see Gibson, Martin, Guild, Taylor and (especially) Seagull and Takamine offer production acoustic tenor guitars, I don't see how it could possibly be feasible. It seems to me that the acoustic tenor guitar market is now pretty much completely covered.

At the entry level there's Blueridge, Gold Tone and Aria, all offering fine starter instruments, while the vintage Kays, Harmonys, Regals, Gibsons, and Martins (in ascending price ranges?) cover the rest of the demand.

Combine this with that fact that such a large percentage of buyers on the high-end prefer to go vintage, and it's very hard to see how a production or even small shop instrument fits in.

[KanMando]

Let's not forget Jimmy Dodd:



Bob

[Ed Goist]

Bob, great addition! Thanks for sharing that.

[bruce.b]

My brother has a GS Mini and it's an excellent little guitar. Sounds great and the neck is wonderful. I'd buy a tenor GS Mini the day it was offered. Maybe someone should try and see how many people would. Only the neck needs to be altered as the body is perfect for this. Maybe if enough people ask for one they'll do a small run like Bob said is possible. The scale length is 23.5" and I've thought about getting one to set up GDAE just to see how it works and then converting it back to a 6 string to give to my daughter.

bruce b.

[MikeEdgerton]

Though I'd love to see Gibson, Martin, Guild, Taylor and (especially) Seagull and Takamine offer production acoustic tenor guitars, I don't see how it could possibly be feasible. It seems to me that the acoustic tenor guitar market is now pretty much completely covered.

At the entry level there's Blueridge, Gold Tone and Aria, all offering fine starter instruments, while the vintage Kays, Harmonys, Regals, Gibsons, and Martins (in ascending price ranges?) cover the rest of the demand.

Combine this with that fact that such a large percentage of buyers on the high-end prefer to go vintage, and it's very hard to see how a production or even small shop instrument fits in.

You'll know there's more room in the market when you see one with the Rogue brand on it.

[delsbrother]

My brother has a GS Mini and it's an excellent little guitar. Sounds great and the neck is wonderful. I'd buy a tenor GS Mini the day it was offered. Maybe someone should try and see how many people would. Only the neck needs to be altered as the body is perfect for this. Maybe if enough people ask for one they'll do a small run like Bob said is possible. The scale length is 23.5" and I've thought about getting one to set up GDAE just to see how it works and then converting it back to a 6 string to give to my daughter.

bruce b.

Can you just unbolt the neck and make a tenor one?

[sunburst]

Can you just unbolt the neck and make a tenor one?

Having seen unknown numbers of tenor banjos converted to 5-string by unbolting one neck and bolting on another, it seems a strange twist of fate that a guitar might be converted to tenor by bolting on another neck...
I suppose it could be done, as long as the scale length stays the same. there may be a "scar" on the body to the sides of the narrower neck where it bolts on, and there would be two extra bridge pin holes in the bridge (assuming a pin bridge) and bridge plate. That would work fine, but a new bridge would complete the transition.

[multidon]

Man, NOW I want one of those "Mickey Mouse" tenors like Jimmy Dodd had! What are those? Was it something just custom for him or was it produced by someone? Now THAT would be cool! That way, if somebody called your playing "Mickey Mouse" it would actually be a compliment!

[Charlieshafer]

I love tenors, but I can't see anyone making any money producing an actual model. Strictly a custom thing at this point. For any guitar manufacturer to sell anything at a $499 price point, they'd have to sell literally thousands. Re-working tooling or molds, as mentioned before, is simply way to expensive.

The other market size indicator is how long available merchandise stays on the shelves. In the case of tenors, there are a lot of really sweet used ones (mostly Martins) that have been available for a while at some of the more notable dealers. Why would someone want a Taylor when you can get great vintage ones at the same price Taylor would probably need to get.

I have no financial interest in any of these places, but here are a couple of the instruments I've been lusting over when someone leaves an extra bag of money on my front porch:

Gibson

Kay

electric Gibson

Blonde Gibson

Mahtin (getting ready for the Patriots)

[multidon]

Well guess what? Googled "Mickey Mouse Tenor Guitar" and found this page with the whole story:
http://uniqueguitar.blogspot.com/200...hybecause.html
Not a production item but something that was luthier made especially for Jimmy! Verrrrry Interesting.