Is an F-4 loud enough for a bluegrass jam?

[jmalmsteen]

I love old Gibson mandolins and unless I sell my house, I can't see getting a loar. But, I could go crazy and get an F-4 or an F-2 Gibson. Has anyone taken one of these to a bluegrass jam? If I do get one of these mandolins, I would like to use it somewhere outside of my living room. At the local jam, there are a bunch of banjos and guitars and I can barely hear my F-5 Gibson as it is. Thanks!
-JEN

[sunburst]

Not usually. Someone will be along here shortly to remind us how Jimmy Martin always had his mandolin player play his (Jimmy's) own, F4, but they were always using a mic, and Bluegrass jams can get pretty noisy (loud). It's not that an F4 isn't loud enough, it just doesn't "cut" as well as an f-hole mandolin because it is competing for "band width" with too many other instruments.

[cobraman428]

Unless the F-4 or F-2 has had some serious professional customization/graduation done to it, YOU ARE GOING TO GET SANDBAGGED IN A JAMM. Been there, done that, know it and then sold it for a newer F-5 Style Gibson. On another note, as much as the wife and kids might complain, while practicing in the living room, you should practice playing louder !!!

[Charley wild]

No, it isn't. I used an F2 in a band situation (avatar photo). Even mic'ed it was less than ideal. I had never played an F style at the time and someone sat in with one and let me play it. I couldn't believe the difference!

[Elliot Luber]

Andy Statman holds his own here on a Junior. He's the third guy with the oval-holed mandolin.

[f5loar]

is a Chevy 6 cylinder ready for a race against a Chevy V8? Is this a serious question? Does it really matter what Andy Statman plays to sound that good? Was Jimmy Martin just crazy all those years?

[Elliot Luber]

I'm not putting down F5s. Andy himself has switched to a similarly designed Kimble, but it will get you through a jam.

[John Gardinsky]

"Is an F4 loud enough for a bluegrass jam?"

Depends how courteous the other pickers are. I have been in jams where all you can hear is the banjo above everything. Conversely, one banjo player I know plays so lightly you have to listen closely to hear him. He does this on purpose and usually it produces wonderful results within a jam.

[WELSrev]

I'm with ya John
A lot will depend on how good people are at listening to each other and how well they adjust their individual levels to compliment what the group needs to sound balanced.
If you are people who understand that - oval holes will works well.
In a free for all however, those F Models however cut through a lot better.
Having said that - even if you have a cannon, it is nice to find some folks to play with who understand a little about or are willing to learn about the dynamics of playing with others. We have a good friend we play with that is a great picker but not that loud on his guitar. Everyone understands that they need to back off when he takes a break. We also explain how it works when we have others join us. It is a simple matter of respect for the other players and for the group as a whole - and that respect will be returned when its your turn.

[mrmando]

F4s are greatly appreciated in mandolin orchestras. You have a few to choose from over there in N.Y./Pa. And there are "jams" focusing on other types of music as well ... you could probably find some old-timey, New England, Irish or contra dance players who'd welcome your participation.

[jmalmsteen]

Unless the F-4 or F-2 has had some serious professional customization/graduation done to it, YOU ARE GOING TO GET SANDBAGGED IN A JAMM. Been there, done that, know it and then sold it for a newer F-5 Style Gibson. On another note, as much as the wife and kids might complain, while practicing in the living room, you should practice playing louder !!!

Hah. I am the wife. No kids. My husband can care less how loud I play my banjo, guitar or mandolin. My interest in fiddle solved that problem! There is nothing that annoys him more than when I play the fiddle.

[jmalmsteen]

F4s are greatly appreciated in mandolin orchestras. You have a few to choose from over there in N.Y./Pa. And there are "jams" focusing on other types of music as well ... you could probably find some old-timey, New England, Irish or contra dance players who'd welcome your participation.

There are mandolin orchestras?? Wow. I would love to see one of those! There is one jam that I know about that meets once a month on Long Island. I will have to see what else is going on in the Lancaster, PA area on the weekends.

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

If you have trouble getting heard while playing your F5G, I doubt you'd have an easier time with an F2 or F4. On the other hand, if the sound of an F2/4 delights you, and you are in a position to get one, I don't think you should let one single factor (getting heard in a big jam) keep you from doing so. There are many other ways you can use the mandolin outside of your house, one of which is attending a big blue grass jam. There are in different genre (old time, Irish, folk) where the F2/4 can really shine, not to mention mandolin orchestra as Martin had brought up.

[Gary Hedrick]

Oh heck, in a lot of jams with the ill mannered and macho one upmanship b.s. that goes on, an F5 isn't loud enough......if you want to play those mass affairs then no an F4 won't cut it.....but if you play in a controled form of a jam where folks throttle back when they aren't playing the lead, then yes an F4 can make it.

[Marc Berman]

There are mandolin orchestras??

The NY Mandolin Orchestra

[Marc Berman]

If I do get one of these mandolins, I would like to use it somewhere outside of my living room.

Jen -

See if you could locate an Old Time jam. That is if you like the music. Old A's and F's are the norm.

[jmalmsteen]

I'm okay with old time. Coming from a speed metal/thrash background, the mandolin orchestra might be a bit much. I'm happy to hear that such things exist though. I like classically influenced riffs produced by a heavily distorted guitar so I don't think I could appreciate a mandolin orchestra

[P.D. Kirby]

Hah. I am the wife. No kids. My husband can care less how loud I play my banjo, guitar or mandolin. My interest in fiddle solved that problem! There is nothing that annoys him more than when I play the fiddle.

Another Banjo player comes out of the closet, thats a bold move Jen! I know there are a lot of closet Banjoist among us here but few are brave enough to post it...

[Jean Fugal]

Oh heck, in a lot of jams with the ill mannered and macho one upmanship b.s. that goes on, an F5 isn't loud enough......if you want to play those mass affairs then no an F4 won't cut it.....but if you play in a controled form of a jam where folks throttle back when they aren't playing the lead, then yes an F4 can make it.

I'm with Gary ... I've grown tired of Jam's where I have to "blow out" my vocal chords to get over the din ....... trouble is mostly that folks won't back off when it's not their turn in the box.

[Don Stiernberg]

i've seen Mike Compton play the grass on an oval hole and of course it sounded great. Red Rector was another. Still wanted to mention that in addition to the volume thing you may want to consider the length of the neck, or where it joins the body as it were..
Chop chords in the key of B and lead notes above that may seem a little more challenging to access if you have large hands or have become accustomed to the F5 layout.I know, it never was a limitation to Andy, or Jethro, or Mike or red or even Bill Monroe(Monroe's Hornpipe and one other I think, cut on an F4)but it still worthy of consideration. I also like Dan Crary's quote: "The one you spend the most time with is the one that will sound the best."

[mrmando]

I like classically influenced riffs produced by a heavily distorted guitar so I don't think I could appreciate a mandolin orchestra

There's a small mandolin ensemble in town here, made up of some folks who also play in our orchestra. Among their repertoire is a killer version of Black Sabbath's "Iron Man."

[Jack Roberts]

My F4 isn't, my A1 is. Go figure...