Use of Octave Pedal to Simulate E-Octave-Mandolin?

[Ed Goist]

Has anyone played their e-mando through a good polyphonic 'octave down' pedal to simulate an octave mandolin?

See the excellent demo video below at about 0:37 to see an example of what I'm suggesting played on a guitar (to simulate a bass). (BTW, there's a mandolin reference in this demo video at ~2:00.)

I'm thinking that if one has an e-mando they really like, such a pedal might widen the effective tonal range of the instrument thereby allowing it to function as an e-o-mando as well.

Thoughts?

[Big Rig]

Ed, you are going to drive me back to the electric world.

[Ed Goist]

Ed, you are going to drive me back to the electric world.

"To the Dark Side much allure there is" - Master Yoda

[Ben Milne]

I use a POG 2, it has a vast tonal pallette, but most often it ends up being more along the lines of an organ timbre than an octave emando. Latency in the attack can be an issue if removing the original signal and upper registers.

[journeybear]

I had one of these. I never could get it to sound right. It mixed the original signal with the octave signal, and I just wanted the octave signal. Even with the knob all the way over, some of the original was still audible. Also, the tone or timbre was affected, and sounded off, rather tubular and synthetic. It was not the kind of sound I wanted to use all night, or even for a whole song. Heck, even Wes Montgomery doesn't do octaves all the time. I'll grant that it could have been a cheap device and something like this could work better than what I had. It has mysteriously vanished, and I have not gone looking for it.

An octave down: I had one of these. I never could get it to sound right.

[mandroid]

Thoughts?

divided pickups >pitch to MIDI converter> Midi Synthesizer.

a rewired Godin A8, perhaps?, (though things get weird with unison strings that are rarely in unison)
They are wired Mono thru the EQ/ preamp, dividing the signal from each of the 4 pickups ,
and fitting one of RMC's polydrive 13 pin jacks in the edge, RMC supplies the electric parts to Godin.
, Roland GI 20, and a keyboard synth module [or just get a guitar synth module]

is One approach.. then you use the synth patch of a bass instrument.

[brunello97]

Pretty cool, Ed. I am about to get reacquainted with my LOUD side and would be interested in checking one of these out. Not a cheap box btw.

Mick

[Christian McKee]

I have a Boss OC3 that I can't seem to get rid of, even though I don't flip it on very much. It's more useful to think of an octave pedal as a synth of some kind, since you're going to lose the tone of your instrument almost completely. It will let you play around down low where mandolins can't otherwise, but it's not going to sound like an octave mandolin, or a guitar, or a bass - it's going to sound like a heavily processed low tone. One issue that a lot of these have is handling polyphonic input and output well, the old pedals forced you into single notes only, even. If synthy is what you're looking for, there's worlds of playtime ahead of you, but if you want octave mandolin sounds, better to get the real deal.

[mandroid]

I tried one of those OC-2 things, and i got no significant lower tones,
I thought it needed to be an already longer string to make it go.

Accessing a Proper Synth, thru a divided pickup, as said, did.

[Jerry Turberville]

I use a Boss Harmonist PS-6 and occassionally a Boss Super Octave OC-3. Neither get what I would call a "nice" tone with the emando. I do like the sound I get with the electric violin and the OC-3. The Harmonist is very similar to that sound with the violin.
I use the Harmonist when I play with the loop station. I'll set the balance knob on the Harmonist to a little less than a quarter on when playing chord changes. I get a deeper tone, but as Ben mentioned it's more along the lines of an organ tone. Keeping the mix low does make it make it a pleasant sound as opposed to the "full on" mode. I've not cared for the "full on" sound with the mandolin. It would probably work well with some genres, but it's not something I've worked much on to date.

[Christian McKee]

Mandroid, you'll get very different results with OC-3 and OC-2, they're very different pedals. OC2 is all analog, monophonic input, with the somewhat limited sensitivity range you describe, the OC3 is digital, and better suited to mandolin use, IF (and it's a big if) you want the octave pedal sound. OC2s are generally preferred by guitar tone snobs, OC3s are more common, and more versatile, but lack some of the good chunky sound the originals have.

Still, one of these days I'm going to try a synth setup like you've got, I wanna have that much fun

Christian

[Ed Goist]

Just a quick follow-up on this subject...

After much experimentation and trail and error, I am now certain that the biggest factor in driving a strong 'octave' tone on an electric instrument is the scale length of the instrument. There is no way around this, and the essential character of the tone one gets in the octave range can not be achieved without the longer scale.

For electric playing where strong bass string riffs and power chords are desired, one needs an instrument with a long scale (preferably tenor guitar scale). Pedals and thicker strings on a shorter scale instrument are a poor substitute.

YMMV...But I doubt it.

[Alex Orr]

I don't mean this to sound harsh, but to some extent, it seems like you're looking for every trick under the sun to make an emando sound like an electric guitar. Why not just play electric guitar? If you really want strong bass riffs and power chords as options in an instrument, then why not use the instrument that is best suited for those things?

[Ed Goist]

I don't mean this to sound harsh, but to some extent, it seems like you're looking for every trick under the sun to make an emando sound like an electric guitar. Why not just play electric guitar? If you really want strong bass riffs and power chords as options in an instrument, then why not use the instrument that is best suited for those things?

Not harsh at all Alex...Actually an excellent question.
I really like the tuning in fifths. Frankly, it seems to have completely opened my eyes musically. I still have (and enjoy) my guitars, but for me it's always the same old playing out of shapes and not really being "into" the music on the guitar.
On the other hand, I feel so much more aware and creative on my GDAE tenor guitars...After just two years of playing instruments tuned in fifths, I feel like much more of a musician on them than I do on the guitar despite 30+ years of casual guitar playing.
However, all of my musical influences and inspirations are guitar players, and the music I most enjoy playing is guitar inspired music.
So, it now seems and feels to me that the GDAE tuned tenor guitar (which really isn't tenor any longer, is it? ) is the right vehicle for this part of my musical journey.
Oh, and I'm a big fan of the obscure...And what's more obscure than a GDAE tuned tenor guitar?

[Jacob]

"And what's more obscure than a GDAE tuned tenor guitar?"

A GDAEB tuned tenor guitar?

[eadg145]

I really like the tuning in fifths. Frankly, it seems to have completely opened my eyes musically. I still have (and enjoy) my guitars, but for me it's always the same old playing out of shapes and not really being "into" the music on the guitar.
On the other hand, I feel so much more aware and creative on my GDAE tenor guitars...After just two years of playing instruments tuned in fifths, I feel like much more of a musician on them than I do on the guitar despite 30+ years of casual guitar playing.

Ed, you may be one of those folks who might really enjoy Robert Fripp's New Standard Tuning. Give it a try on an electric guitar, and report back.

[Dan Hulse]

...I feel so much more aware and creative on my GDAE tenor guitars...After just two years of playing instruments tuned in fifths, I feel like much more of a musician on them than I do on the guitar despite 30+ years of casual guitar playing...So, it now seems and feels to me that the GDAE tuned tenor guitar (which really isn't tenor any longer, is it? ) is the right vehicle for this part of my musical journey.
Oh, and I'm a big fan of the obscure...And what's more obscure than a GDAE tuned tenor guitar?

Hey Ed, must be something in this lake Erie water. I'm also a guitar transplant, Guitar>Bass>Mando>Irish Tenor Banjo>Bouzouki>Tenor guitar the last 4 in GDAE. Is there such a thing as Irish Tenor Guitar? It just feels right. Check out Seamus Egan of Solas. BTW, I did own a Boss octave at one time, gave it to a friend who uses it on his flute!

[Ed Goist]

Ed, you may be one of those folks who might really enjoy Robert Fripp's New Standard Tuning. Give it a try on an electric guitar, and report back.

Thanks for the link! Why not a B on the treble string for tuning in fifths? I know it would need to be very thin (.006?), but it seems the tuning all in fifths (CGDAEB) would make sense.
Anyone out there have a Fender scale electric tuned like this? What string gauges are you using?
I'm going to do this with my Telecaster.

[Markus]

I would wonder if a tenor tuned to some funky tuning is what you're really looking for.

Long enough scale to have a little rattle and depth, but perhaps not 5ths tuning, or some variety on 5ths set for blues or rock riffing/chording.

I was playing with mandolin GDGD last weekend, and realized that having a second instrument would be mighty handy as there's a lot of things to try with odd tunings.

It throws the 5ths ... it might be that part of the sound you are looking for requires it. There's times when I'm playing with my acoustic blues/rock group and feel like 5ths tuning is a Phillips head which doesn't fit. If I just play a few strings, the right sound can be found - yet I feel like the benefits of 5ths tuning are being worked around ... at least until the next tune, where 5ths tuning is incredibly nice.