Holding resale value, which Collings?

[DavDav]

I'm deciding between two used Collings as an upgrade, but I'm curious which would likely hold it's resale value better.

An MT for $1500, a bit of damage to the finish on the neck from thumb rubbings and a lot of play time, nothing too major other than that.

And a Collings MT2R #82 for $2,000 - one of the earlier models (old style tailpiece and tuners). Do the older MT2's usually sell for less for any reason?

I'm paranoid about buyers remorse, or having to sell it for unforeseen reasons in the future. I've never bought an instrument worth quite this much, so any advice or warnings would be great. In general, it seems like mandolins hold their value, right?

[mandolirius]

Depends on the market. Right now nothing is holding its value. Almost everything is available for less than a year or two ago.

[Earl Gamage]

MT's often go for $1650 or a little more. I don't know about the MT2R. You might very well take a smaller loss on a Collings than on some other brands when you trade or sell.

[robert.najlis]

Generally speaking the MT2 will go for more, as it costs more originally, and they are sold used for more as well. The MT2 has a red spruce top while the MT has an engelmann spruce top. Both seem like pretty safe purchases in terms of resale value, but as mentioned in depends on the market (not great now) and how people feel about the slight wear, or the fact that you have an earlier model, etc

[robert.najlis]

I should mention that I previously had a Collings MT which I sold for $1650, but it had almost no wear on it at all.

[yankees1]

Depends on the market. Right now nothing is holding its value. Almost everything is available for less than a year or two ago.

Northfield ?

[terzinator]

I'd say, generally, if you buy used, and keep it in nice shape, you won't suffer much depreciation. Maybe a couple hundred or so depending on market and overall consumer confidence and all that other business. But the original owner took the initial hit, and it shouldn't keep going down from there too much.

Older Collings, hmmm... I don't know why, but I get the feeling there's less "value" placed on an older instrument (until you reach "investment age"...) I think there's a perception that these builders just keep making these mandolins better and better (learning more with each instrument), and you probably pay a premium for the latest and greatest. Collings Mandolins are too young to have the same "milestones" as, say, Martin guitars... Where 1969 saw the end of Brazilian Rosewood, or 1945 saw the end of Herringbone trim on the D-28, etc... Sure, there are the 1920's Loars, but that's a different conversation altogether. Until you go back to one of those milestones, the newer instrument will have more perceived value, I think. (This says NOTHING about tone, or playability, or "opening up" after years of play!)

I bought a plain-jane MT a couple of years back for $1700 and played the heck out of it; frets needed attention and I'd worn a pinky-plant through the finish. When I sold it to get my current MT, I only got $1250 for it (if I recall), because of the major wear. (In retrospect, I probably paid too much originally, as the buyer represented it as a wide nut when it wasn't, and had some armrest wear that I wasn't informed of... but, live and learn.)

Anyway, long story short, be fair (but emotionally unattached) when you buy, and fair (and truthful) when you sell, and you'll be fine. Also make sure you have good communication with the seller if there's an issue. When I brought up my issues after I received the instrument, I never heard back from the guy I bought it from.

[DavDav]

Thank you for the advice! I met up with the owner of the MT2 today, who also hauled his other mandolins along to compare (which was awfully nice). I preferred the way the MT2 played, but prefer the tone of the MT, oddly.

Took the MT to the shop regarding the finish issues and they told me there is nothing they can do without redoing the entire finish (few hundred bucks). I can live with the finish issues, but it's hard to gauge how much cosmetic damage should = in lower price.

Also curious, does the MT have a thicker neck than the MT2? I was surprised to find that they were both V shaped, but the MT is noticeably thicker, at least to me.

[Dagger Gordon]

For what it's worth, I have a MT which I like very much. Indeed I preferred it to an MT2 (both were new) when I tried them in the shop. Actually, I preferred it to most of the other mandolins which were in the shop, and there were some good ones! (Tamco, Brighton, England).

So I would buy one of these because that is what you want to play and not worry too much about the resale. I'd be surprised if you would get rid of it because they are very good mandolins and you would be spending a lot of money to upgrade from a Collings. If you had to sell it some day, it should still make a good enough price. Collings have a very good reputation.

It sounds like the seller is a decent guy. It is very helpful to have other mandolins to compare.

Personally, slight cosmetic damage due to playing doesn't worry me at all. I take it as a good sign that someone liked to play it so much.

[Grommet]

I also played one new MT that I preferred over two new MT2s at Buffalo Bros. in Carlsbad a year or so back. But, I could fall flat in love with the first MT2 or MT2-V that purred at me. Resale value? Rarely seen a used MT advertised for less than 1450, mostly 1650 and up. I'd try really hard to like that MT2-R at that price, but you gotta go for the better sounding one every time. Didn't notice the difference in neck shapes. Were they all the same nut width?

Scott

[Bigtuna]

Depends on the market. Right now nothing is holding its value. Almost everything is available for less than a year or two ago.

I did the math on a few used Ellis F5's I've seen that were recently sold, based on the current price of a new one it looks like most sold for a loss of about 1.2%. They seem to hold their valve better than most of my stocks. It appears that Collings mandolins also hold their value fairly well, no matter how beat up they are, there appears to be minimum at which their owners are willing to sell them for. You won't find an MT for $900, most owns would rather keep it than sell for that kind of loss, even it they are trying to move and paid roughly $1200 themselves. I've rarely seen them sell for less than $1500 used. All bets are off for a mandolin that's going on it's third owner and a motivated seller.

[Barry Platnick]

I love my "old style" MT2. It is an amazing mandolin. it is unlikely to ever find and mt2 for less than 2k so it seems good to me.

One note: the finish on the back of the neck of mine blistered up and flaked off some so its got a spontaneous speed neck. I've heard of other finish issues on them as well.

Buy the one you like and dont sell it.

[jim simpson]

I didn't see any used MT's for $1500 back when I bought mine. I paid a bit more but it had the black top upgrade that I was holding out for. As others have said, all instruments seem to be selling for lower prices (except for the ones I want to buy - lol!). In general, better known names will sell more easily. I don't expect to get out what I paid for mine but then I don't really see myself getting rid of it anytime soon. Buy what you're going to enjoy and play the heck out of it!

[Cheryl Watson]

If you buy a used Collings MTV (varnish model) they seem to hold their value pretty well but who's to tell in this economy.

[JeffD]

I'm paranoid about buyers remorse, or having to sell it for unforeseen reasons in the future. I've never bought an instrument worth quite this much, so any advice or warnings would be great. In general, it seems like mandolins hold their value, right?

I had a tinge of this. But I made a firm decision, for me, to ignore it. I get what makes the most sense at the time and my plan is to keep it. I don't care if it appreciates or not. I have gotten to the point now where I don't in any way let the future potential value of a mandolin affect my decision to buy it today.

For me it is avoiding the tyranny of the future. No highly unlikely future need to sell my instruments to raise money is going to control my very likely decision to play a nice mandolin today. If something horrible happens and I have to sell my instruments, well the loss I take will be the least of my worries.

Its like when one purchases a diamond engagement ring. They tell you to buy this or that because its an investment. No it isn't, its a diamond. A stock or a bond is an investment.

[Chris Biorkman]

No mandolin holds it's value right now.

[tr6drvr]

IMO a well-bought MT will hold its value best. As you go up the price chain, the customer for your instrument becomes more discerning and there are more reasons for them not to pay what you want or want your particular instrument. With much more money in the game that you are trying to recover on resale, you are more likely to cave to the pressure to sell it for less than you'd like.
Many will agree the MT has the best sound and appearance for your $$ of any domestically made mandolin and is correspondingly in the highest demand and thus easiest to sell.

Watch the ads, you will see used MT's selling in a very tight range between $1,600 and $1,900, depending on features like gloss-top etc. I tracked cafe ads for a while earlier this year and here is what I found, one of which I bought (black gloss top wide neck tortoise shell binding-mmmmm, nice!)

Collings MT 2009 1,650
Collings MT 2008 2,250
Collings MT 2010 1,900
Collings MT 2007 1,600
Collings MT 2007 1,850
Collings MT 2008 1,850
Collings MT 2008 1,800
Collings MT 1,800
Collings MT 1,800
Collings MT 2008 1,700
Collings MT 2010 1,650
Collings MT 1,685
Collings MT 2009 1,685
Collings MT 1,875

[sgarrity]

Is $1500 for the MT with some finish wear the deal of the century?? No. Is it a fair deal? Absolutely. The MT is a lot of bang for the buck. If that's the one you liked better then buy it and consider yourself lucky that you just saved $500 over the MT2!

[BradKlein]

Many, many years ago, I went to buy my first mandolin - and located two old Gibson A models in different stores. One was an A-2 in VG shape, and the other an A-0 with the Sharaton brown finish in FAIR minus condition, and they both were about the same price. I confided in a friend that I was torn, I liked the sound of the A-0 more, but the A-2 was a better deal, and he said to me (deadpan), "many musicians consider the sound of an instrument to be very important". And I 'woke up', bought the A-0 and played it happily for more than a decade. I sold it for about what I had in it by that time, maybe I 'made' a hundred dollars or so. The moral, as others have said, is buy the instrument that you can afford and enjoy playing most. In most cases, that will VASTLY outweigh a couple hundred dollars one way or another way down the road.

[Steve Ostrander]

Buy the one you like best. Forget about investment. If you enjoy playing it but you lose a few bucks when you sell it, wasn't it worth it?

[Paul Kotapish]

I strongly second Steve on this. Go for the instrument that you will enjoy more and that you will want to hold onto longer.

Sure, the market is depressed right now, which makes it a great time to buy, but if you get a good instrument by a maker with a solid reputation (and Collings qualifies, no doubt), you will do fine over time. You might not be able to pull 100% of your investment in right away, but if you wait long enough, you will, and if you love your instrument, that time may never come.

I've rarely lost money on an instrument, except for a few Pac Rim instruments I probably paid too much for originally. In every other case, the market has eventually exceeded what I had invested, and I either broke even or made a little profit on instruments sold.

But think of it another way. How much would you pay to rent a nice step-up instrument? Is a dollar a day too much for something that gives you great pleasure and satisfaction? If not, then consider any short-term depreciation as rent paid on a great experience.

Most of us will--on occasion--spend a fair amount of money we'll never recoup on fleeting pleasures such as a great meal, a big night out with friends, movies, a day at an amusement park, a concert, a big celebration or party or a special occasional getaway weekend. Having a nice instrument in your hands will probably provide as much pleasure as many of those other expensive treats, and you stand a good chance of still getting most of your money back.

Good luck. Go for the one that speaks to you.

[Mandobar]

Some of the older mt2 models had very thin pointed profile necks.

[Tom Morse]

Here's a slightly different take: I own a Collings MF5 and it started to show some pinky wear which is slowly increasing. I asked several respected luthiers for advice and they all said to just keep playing it. At first I, too, was concerned about my resale value. But then it dawned on me that since I do make money playing it (and love playing it), if it was a pickup truck instead that I made money with and loved to drive, would I worry all that much about the wear and tear on the truck? Sure, a little, but either one is really just a tool to enjoy using—in the MF5's case, a terrific tool. While I keep my fingernails as short as can be and try to avoid contact with the top, I know I will wear it out someday...(Check out the wear on Andy Statman's old Gibson A or the hole in Willie Nelson's guitar.)...and then I'll buy another Collings MF5. So if you're lucky enough to have a beautiful instrument with an impressive voice and an equally impressive price tag, just play the daylights out of it and you really never can lose.

[frshwtrbob]

Beware of sellers that don't show pictures of the fret wear or make a definitive statement as to the amount of fretwear. Always ask the seller to show you high def shots (not blurry cell phone shots) of the 1st 5 frets with strings peeled away so you can see how deep the divits are.
Sellers of instruments that have a decent amount of fret wear practically never show a picture of this but are quick to say how great it sounds
A fret dress / re-crown is gonna cost you close to $100. A partial re-fret (of the 1st 12 frets) costs about $10-15 per fret. A total refret will cost anywhere from 200 to 350 or even 400 by a very notable luthier.
You should always figure this in and add it to the amount of what the seller is asking.
Pre-owned MT's w/out fretwear in minty condition go for closer to 1800 and up. I've requested revealing fretwear pictures of some of the aforementioned MT's in this thread.The pictures became deal breakers.
You get what you pay for.

[DavDav]

Well I've been playing the MT all day and really do like the sound, even with a couple dull strings on it. I like the thought that if you buy used you never have to worry about that first ding... very true. I just get paranoid about spending this kind of cash, on anything.

Regarding fretwear, how can you tell when it's too much? When I peel back there are definitely divots. I do have a harder time sliding up the neck on this than on my KM, as it feels like my fingers are hitting the frets a bit more which stops a smooth slide. Result of fretwear? Perhaps the frets themselves are just higher on these.