Bach

[Imaslipper]

I've seen multiple videos of Chris Thile playing Bach tunes. Was wondering if anybody could find me a tab? It might be a cool project to work on. And yes I know I can find the sheet music but...

[Brent Hutto]

Mike Marshall has published an edition of selected Bach Sonatas and Partitas for mandolin. Including tablature.



I have a copy and it is very nicely typeset and arranged. About 20 bucks at Elderly, Amazon, et. al.

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

I had just started searching for same, and in additional to the Mike Marshall book that Brent had mentioned, there's also a ' JS Bach for Mandolin' book from Mel Bay as well (http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=95770BCD)

I have also been pointed to the mandozine TabEdit collection site (http://www.mandozine.com/music/tabledit_search.php) where there are a few Bach pieces in TabEdit format. Search for either 'Bach' or 'Bouree'

[Ed Goist]

Here are some nice Bach mandolin tabs:
Bourrée in Em
Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring
Minuet in C
Minuet in Gm
Musette in G
Gavotte 1 and 2 from 6th Cello Suite (key of D)
Prelude from 1st Cello Suite
Links to several more Bach TablEdit tabs can be found here.

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

Great stuff Ed! Thanks for sharing

[eadg145]

I can recommend Debora Chen's Bach tab:

http://www.stringthingm.com/J.S.Bach...Arrangeme.html

From the author of "Standard Notation for the Tab Addicted Mandolinist". Good stuff all around

[Buddah]

I'd love to get a copy of this transcription...

[JeffD]

While I like Thile's Bach, I don't understand the awe. Its not the first, second, third, or 87630334th time Bach has been played on the mandolin.

But I do love this video. Bach using bluegrass instrumentation. I would run out and purchase an all Bach album done by the Punch Bros. In a heartbeat.

And it is a well done version. It brings out a lot of the absolute fun and joy of the music. Thile really shines, IMO, on this more than any other Bach I have heard him play. This one is more than just a feat of mechanical endurance, this is music.

[Buddah]

Completely agree Jeff. This became one of my favorite versions of this piece as soon as I heard it, for exactly the reasons that you noted; the pure joy that these guys get from playing this music is clear. Another thing that stands out for me when I listen to Thile (or Mike Marshall) play Bach/classical music is the fact that they're doing it on an F5 style mandolin, as opposed to the more traditional bowlback. Imparts a fuller, more satisfying tone (imo).

[JeffD]

Another thing that stands out for me when I listen to Thile (or Mike Marshall) play Bach/classical music is the fact that they're doing it on an F5 style mandolin, as opposed to the more traditional bowlback. Imparts a fuller, more satisfying tone (imo).

After all the F style was invented to be a classical instrument.

As to which kind of tone is more satisfying for classical, specifically for Bach, well discerning people can certainly disagree on that.

[Brent Hutto]

I'm sure there's a kind of music that sounds worse on an ff-hole archtop than on some other kind of mandolin. But it may end up being music I don't care for.

Every time I hear something played on an ff-hole instrument and some other kind I like the ff-hole one better. Whether it's classical, bluegrass, old-time, jazz, whatever. I just like that sound.

In general when Chris Thile plays Bach it's not my favorite rendition of Bach ever and it's not my favorite Chris Thile tune ever. But that leaves a lot of room to still be worth listening to!

[jeffo]

I don't know. I'm pretty new to mandolin. Been playing Bach on various instruments for 30 years. I could listen to Thile play Bach for hours on end and be pretty happy about it. Here's a nice performance with Edgar Meyer from the WTC--no pyrotechnics--just gorgeous soulful playing.

[Birdie]

I wonder if Chris Thile forgot that the music was made for classical instruments of a time period where sound was bright, full and resonant. I feel that the F style leaves the sound with short sustain and a boom in the way the cavity resonates. As much as others seem to appreciate this, Chris' renditions leave me wondering and wishing to hear it played on an A style that can carry each note delicately and fully to the next.

There was a thread where Chris had explained that he felt the instrument was chosen partially due to his background as an American and his love for an American style of instrument (the F style mandolin). I think it's always right to consider the composers vision when interpreting and allowing choice of instrument to follow.

[DavidKOS]

After all the F style was invented to be a classical instrument.

As to which kind of tone is more satisfying for classical, specifically for Bach, well discerning people can certainly disagree on that.

Every time I hear something played on an ff-hole instrument and some other kind I like the ff-hole one better. Whether it's classical, bluegrass, old-time, jazz, whatever. I just like that sound.

. I feel that the F style leaves the sound with short sustain and a boom in the way the cavity resonates. As much as others seem to appreciate this, Chris' renditions leave me wondering and wishing to hear it played on an A style that can carry each note delicately and fully to the next.

I respect all of your opinions on the "better" tone of an F mandolin ; however I do not share that opinion.

As a player of bowlbacks and other non-archtop mandolins, I really do prefer the more harpsichord-like ring and harmonic content of the traditional style bowl mandolin.

Now I am not a bluegrass player, but have been an Italian-American mandolinists since 1975 or so, and I assume that affects my entire opinion of mandolins in general - I'm not enamored of thick strings on long scale instruments, struck by a round hard thick "poker chip" pick.

And that is the current tone color preferred by most mandolinists, who seem to gravitate towards BG style instruments.

And yes, the Gibson mandolin was designed to be a "classical" mandolin for solo and orchestral use - but you notice that style mandolin has not replaced bowlbacks among Italian musicians!

It's largely due to the tone color of the two instruments. Of course a good player can coax wonderful classical music from any working mandolin, but I remain loyal to the original mandolin sound of the bowlback and a pointed pick, which can certainly "carry each note delicately and fully".

[JeffD]

As a player of bowlbacks and other non-archtop mandolins, I really do prefer the more harpsichord-like ring and harmonic content of the traditional style bowl mandolin. .

There is nothing like it. It is not replaced by a flatty or an arch top.

I happen to like that sound in old time music too.

[Birdie]

I respect all of your opinions on the "better" tone of an F mandolin ; however I do not share that opinion.

As a player of bowlbacks and other non-archtop mandolins, I really do prefer the more harpsichord-like ring and harmonic content of the traditional style bowl back

It's largely due to the tone color of the two instruments. Of course a good player can coax wonderful classical music from any working mandolin, but I remain loyal to the original mandolin sound of the bowlback and a pointed pick, which can certainly "carry each note delicately and fully".

Thank you for recognizing this. I was going to make a correction in my description of the F style. Yes, while it is made to be a "classical" instrument, it was not made to be a Baroque instrument. You are right about the "harpsicord like ring and harmonic content" that is needed to fulfill the depth and placement of sound of the Bach music. It's religious music that should flow vibrantly, fully and evenly from the instrument. Yet with the F style mandolin, I feel that even with the beauty of Chris' playing much of that loveliness gets lost up in the curl of the instrument instead of ringing out. This is just my opinion.

[tkdboyd]

I have all types (only one decent quality bowlback, that will have to do for now...unfortunately) and I find it fascinating how different pieces can sound "better" on one type over another. It has been and will continue to be a fun journey with instruments, strings, picks, and composers.

Calace pieces are more suited to bowlbacks of course, but when taking a classical (baroque) piece from Bach it is equally as good on an archtop ff or oval hole american style instrument. Since Bach didn't write for the mandolin we are using our subjective best judgement as to what sounds good.

I enjoy Caterina Lichtenberg's and Christopher Acquavella works with the modern German bowlback. Sometimes with Calace, or other Romantic/Modern mandolin specific composers, only an "Italian" bowl seems to sound the most appropriate. But that makes sense since they were written with that sound in mind. I don't mind them being played on an F5, sounds better than Rawhide played on a bowlback (that does speak to the versatility of an F5). All tools, wonderfully expensive beautiful tools.

I am just thoroughly pleased that there is so many great players out there bringing this music back to life here in the states, no matter what they play it on.

[objectsession]

I wonder if Chris Thile forgot that the music was made for classical instruments of a time period where sound was bright, full and resonant.

I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying . . These pieces weren't written for mandolin at all. Or are you saying that you feel that Thile's playing doesn't emulate the qualities that the original violin (or keyboard depending on the piece) instruments had? In that case, one could analyze the piece to judge what qualities were desired, but that is open to debate. Plus, the performer by necessity (if not musical expression) has to choose how to translate those qualities to whatever the present context is.

Plus, as was said above, these pieces have been performed on mandolin before. You have a lot of options for different interpretations. But the best way to realize your interpretation (and it is yours no matter how close it is to what Bach might have wanted) is of course to play it yourself . . look forward to the YouTube video.

[Birdie]

I am a singer, trained classically. My understanding of tone and resonance comes from this. So my reasoning about style of instrument fulfilling qualities meant by the composer could be considered part of a long standing tradition to appreciate historical significance of stylistic qualities. It does not need to be the same instrument that an original piece was played on, but I personally prefer to hear music where "harmonic" and tonal qualities of the original are carefully considered.

When judging historical interpretations of these works, I personally would take into account that Bach was a church musician. As a composer, he built a repertore of pieces that mostly were intended to glorify a cultural vision of God in a time where everything from Art to Architecture to Music was made to promote a concept of God as vast and absolute. Just taking into account the context of these compositions, I could feel that choosing the right instrument could be worthwhile. However it seems it is up to the player to choose.

I'm new with the mandolin, but I do care about my training. My upbringing in the south also leaves me with a deep appreciation of American old time gospel and Appilacian music. I'm not sure if I'm the one to judge these things about mandolin types. I'm full of opinions and maybe not enough experience. When I get to play Bach on the mando cello or octave mandoline I'll tell you if it sounds allright, but I'm glad to have some feedback to remind me that choosing the right instrument might be worthwhile. ��

[objectsession]

Choice of instrument is definitely worth considering. But it's also interesting to look at it from the other perspective of asking how something would sound within the constraints of a certain instrument (and playing style) - I guess you already know that since you have to work with your own singing voice.

Anyway, this video is maybe only partially related, but I just stumbled upon it and, somehow, I think it'd be of interest to you. It's a video of Avi Avital (who has also played Bach on mandolin) talking about transcription and choice on instrument. You can find a lot more about his instrument searching on the forum (and I think there's an interview on here, too).

[Birdie]

Choice of instrument is definitely worth considering. But it's also interesting to look at it from the other perspective of asking how something would sound within the constraints of a certain instrument (and playing style) - I guess you already know that since you have to work with your own singing voice.

Thanks for sharing this. I love Avi Avitals playing (especially Bach) It's nice to hear perspectives about this. Slightly off topic..I'm Trying to find the right instrument to match my voice, so I appreciate the feedback. Certainly there are styles and music that my voice can-not do, but maybe a beautiful sounding mandolin or mando cello could give enough soul and inspiration to help prove my best. One of my best singing teachers said to "sing it like you're saying it". It's that simple, and we are born with that.

Certainly we are blessed to have the instruments we have to play.

[DavidKOS]

It's a video of Avi Avital (who has also played Bach on mandolin) talking about transcription and choice on instrument.

Avital is a fine player! I'd like to learn more about those Kerman mandolins.

http://kermanmandolin.com/

Not much there.....

[JeffD]

I have never heard a Kerman in person, much less played on one. I would love to get the chance some day.

The recordings and youtubes I have heard of Kerman mandolins are always very impressive.

[DavidKOS]

I have never heard a Kerman in person, much less played on one. I would love to get the chance some day.

The recordings and youtubes I have heard of Kerman mandolins are always very impressive.

I'd agree; they sound excellent, and I have never even seen one in person much less played one.

[JeffD]

Here is what would be amazing - I know you asked:

Chris Thile tries out a Kerman mandolin, and comments on what he likes, doesn't like, prefers etc.

Better yet, Chris Thile and Avi Avital meet and trade up instruments for some Bach.


Actually if I ever saw Chris Thile and Avi Avital together in a room I think my head would explode like a Tim Burton martian.