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Thread: Sorting out the Vinaccias

  1. #101
    Registered User Jarek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sortowanie Vinaccias

    Thanks brunello97 for the answer
    Label similar to post # 6 and caption similar to post # 36.
    Labels are similar too.
    You're right the signature looks like Geatano Vinacia.
    Is it possible that there was a Geatano in 1913, 1917, 1921?
    I got the mandolin at an auction in Japan. I felt very sad when I saw her and I am going to bring her back to life Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #102
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sortowanie Vinaccias

    Jarek, that looks to be in sad condition, but not impossible. The top appears to be in good condition.
    Poco a poco you could probably get the bowl staves realigned and glued before reattaching the top.

    The key will be the condition / position / geometry of the neck once the mandolin returns to whole.
    Good luck with the project.

    If you are doing the work yourself, why not post a thread with photos of your progress in the "builders and repairs" section here?

    While there isn't a lot of folks working with bowlbacks here, it would be a good place for you to catch the eye of folks who might offer advice and encouragement.

    Of course we'd all love to see the process and progress here, I'm sure there will be many others in that section who don't come by to this part of the MC that would appreciate your efforts.

    Good luck!

    Mick
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  5. #103

    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    New label:
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    A very interesting 1901 Vinaccia with Calace-like sound ports. Just about the time Calace first used this innovation. Label mentiones both brothers, Gennaro and Achille.
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  7. #104

    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    1902 Label is already different:
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    And another great item found in the net:
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  9. #105

    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Also an interesting paper article from 1893 from here:
    https://www.lucassobieranski.com/vin...dolins-history

    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #106
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Incredible little website, Victor, and tantalizing little story.
    I wonder if the writer was truly from Wichita or if this was an early version of filler or "wire stories" to flesh out the newspaper.
    1893 is pretty early on for US made mandolins the author refers to.

    But what a story.

    By 1893 Gennaro and Achille V were working out of the 53 Rua Catalan location. I wonder, though, if "the old gentleman" was Pasquale V still hanging around while his sons were running the business?

    Even more tantalizing is to think what became of his instrument. I have a Fratelli V mandolin from this era that I bought in the states.
    No, it couldn't be.

    Attached is a recent shot of Rua Catalana.

    I hope Lucas keeps updating his site with new discoveries!

    Mick
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  13. #107

    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Hi Mick,

    It must have been an old Pasquale. He passed away in 1882, according to Wikipedia. The article is from 1883, but the actual voyage could have happened a year or more ago easily. By the way it looks like the brothers continued using old Pasquale label stock for at least two more years after his passing: (or perhaps P.'s passing date is incorrect).

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  14. #108
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Quote Originally Posted by vic-victor View Post
    Hi Mick,

    It must have been an old Pasquale. He passed away in 1882, according to Wikipedia. The article is from 1883, but the actual voyage could have happened a year or more ago easily. By the way it looks like the brothers continued using old Pasquale label stock for at least two more years after his passing: (or perhaps P.'s passing date is incorrect).

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    Thanks, Victor....let's double check.
    The Kansas newspaper article says 1893, that would be some years after Pasquale passed at age 76 if the Wiki article is to be believed.

    But of course, the article could be relaying a story that had occurred many years before and became 'newsworthy' along with the mandolin craze in the US.

    If all dates are correct, PV would be in his early '80s should he still be alive in 1893. His sons, Gennaro and Achille could very well have been in their late 50s or early 60s...but perhaps not be the 'old white haired Italian gentleman' the author refers.

    Could have been another Vinaccia altogether minding the store....but that would really get confusing.

    As you suggest, Vecchio Pasquale makes the most sense to me with the Wichita linemen relaying a story from an earlier mandolin seeking voyage.

    Mick
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  15. #109

    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Thanks for picking up the date of a Kansas newspaper, I was out by 10 years. I guess we won't know for sure now, Vinaccia was a big family...

  16. #110
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Quote Originally Posted by vic-victor View Post
    Thanks for picking up the date of a Kansas newspaper, I was out by 10 years. I guess we won't know for sure now, Vinaccia was a big family...
    I'm no expert on midland American newspapers, Victor, but my hunch is that a story like this wouldn't necessarily be "hot off the presses".
    The storyteller could indeed be relating a much earlier visit to Napoli as you suggest.

    In the Middle of the MidWest those kinds of 'exotic travelogue' stories might have well had a ready audience.
    As they do for you and me, today....

    Mick
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  18. #111

    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Interesting that no one wrote a book on Vinaccia. All info is scattered in various places. There must be modern branches of V. family that know more and given there are still hundreds if not thousands V. instruments around it could have been an interesting album. Someone made that kind of job on Calace in the past. I read somewhere that there was a coffee table sort of book put together some 20 years ago, but I have not seen the actual book. And, there is one on Embergher by Ralf Leenen, of course. Also a rarity these days. I don't have one.

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  20. #112
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Quote Originally Posted by vic-victor View Post
    Interesting that no one wrote a book on Vinaccia. All info is scattered in various places. There must be modern branches of V. family that know more and given there are still hundreds if not thousands V. instruments around it could have been an interesting album. Someone made that kind of job on Calace in the past. I read somewhere that there was a coffee table sort of book put together some 20 years ago, but I have not seen the actual book. And, there is one on Embergher by Ralf Leenen, of course. Also a rarity these days. I don't have one.
    Agreed. Seems like a very ripe PhD dissertation topic for a host of Italian universities. Perhaps it already has been but remains on a dusty shelf somewhere.

    Mick
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  22. #113
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    To add a question to this current discussion: Granted it was a large family, so where are the actual descendants of the makers? There must be some of them somewhere interested in their family history.
    Jim

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  24. #114

    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Quote Originally Posted by vic-victor View Post
    And, there is one on Embergher by Ralf Leenen, of course. Also a rarity these days. I don't have one.
    By Ralf Leenen and Barry Pratt. I was fortunate to score my copy directly from the authors when initially released. It's a lovely work. Ralf is active and, last I knew, responsive to correspondence. Even though his site declares "sold out," it might be worth it to drop him a line. There appear to be surprisingly few copies in public library collections.

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  26. #115

    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Going way back to mandolins of the 1700s, but today's excursion into WorldCat has produced this bit of intrigue that discusses one early effort from the Vinaccia family: https://www.worldcat.org/title/the-g...=brief_results

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  28. #116
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    Going way back to mandolins of the 1700s, but today's excursion into WorldCat has produced this bit of intrigue that discusses one early effort from the Vinaccia family: https://www.worldcat.org/title/the-g...=brief_results
    A deep dive:

    "This paper reports the results of several scientific analyses carried out on ten mandolins made in the second half of the eighteenth century by the most important Neapolitan mandolin manufacturers such as the Filano, Fabricatore, Gagliano and Vinaccia families. Various elements of decoration were characterized for each mandolin: the resins of the sound hole decorations, the black wood strips of the purflings, the varnishes and the glues. Thanks to microscopy observations SEM-EDX, µFT-IR and µRaman analysis, a multi-technique approach was used in order to fully characterize and compare some of the decoration-making techniques peculiar of each family of makers. Shellac was the main organic material used both in the sound hole decorations and in the varnishes. Inorganic fillers such as aluminosilicates, particles of iron oxides/hydroxides and microfossils of diatoms were found within the false inlays. Black iron-based dyes were identified as dyes for the black wood strips of the purflings."

    Interesting to see the Gagliano name included.

    My goodness, Eug, there are a half dozen copies of this within range here in ATX. I bike by the (newish) city central library every morning. Will be stopping in.

    Thanks!

    Mick
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  29. #117

    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Cheers! And I work at a place that holds a copy . . . although I haven't been to campus for more than a year now.

  30. #118
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    Going way back to mandolins of the 1700s, but today's excursion into WorldCat has produced this bit of intrigue that discusses one early effort from the Vinaccia family: https://www.worldcat.org/title/the-g...=brief_results
    Any mention of the mysterious sound ports on the tops?
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  31. #119

    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Any mention of the mysterious sound ports on the tops?
    Unlikely, as they only appeared in 1900-1901 and the article apparently discusses the earlier instruments.

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  33. #120

    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Some music shop in Australia was recently selling an unusual mandolin, claiming to be Fratelli Vinaccia from the year 1953, which is very interesting, to say the least. The instrument doesn't look Vinaccia, but there is still a chance that some Vinaccia offspring was still functioning in 1950's and had something to do with this instrument. Anyway, here's the photos:

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  34. #121

    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    And the label
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  36. #122
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorting out the Vinaccias

    Super strange and interesting, Victor. Thanks for posting this.

    About 20 years newer than any Vinaccia I've seen.

    It's interesting that the label boasts of a prize from the 1950 esposizione.

    Can't recall seeing a FV with a slotted headstock but I have seen a few of them from the 20s that do adopt
    very Calace-sque design features....not that I've ever seen a Calace with a slotted headstock though there's
    likely one out there.

    Could be real or maybe a cheeky Catanese fake...I'm thinking of the type font and layout on the label, but that's not much of an indictment.

    Or someone rebirthing the brand name as is is common practice with US names (eg. Washburn)

    We've got a new benchmark it seems.

    Mick
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