Breedlove FF X-braced Mandolin w/Aged Toner

[Daijoki]

After all sorts of looking for a mandolin, I've 99% settled on this one:

http://www.stringinstruments.com/pc-...ged-toner.aspx

Without getting advise that kicks me into the next tier of higher-priced mandolins (thanks in advance), I'm looking to hear from folks regarding this mandolin's sound (imagine you're blind and couldn't give a hoot about the looks of a mandolin).

BTW, looked at these two before settling:

http://www.themandolinstore.com/scri...idproduct=9071 (Like the binding, but prefer an aged look (and I'm super careful so am not concerned about dings).

http://www.themandolinstore.com/scri...idproduct=8029 (It's a Weber, but this sounded a little "muddier" on the bass side).

Also read Bruce Weber's take on X-bracing (http://www.folkofthewood.com/page2168.htm):

Modified X-Brace: X-bracing gives you that great chop right out of the box with a crisp, clear tone and awesome projection. The initial break-in period is also less with x-bracing.

Tone Bars: Tone bars give you a wonderful bell-like sustain with a rich depth of tone that will mature with time and play into that wonderful wood sound we all love. Break-in is quite a bit longer on tone bar braced instruments.

Disclaimer: Changing sound hole shape and size, using F- holes, sound board species, rim/back/neck woods all effect the tone, volume and subtleties with either bracing pattern. It's all about finding the right recipe (i.e. bracing, wood selection, graduations and desire).

Luthiery is not rocket science! We're dealing with the ever changing properties of a once living substance that we resurrect to tantalize the ears and imaginations of our players.

Regardless, I'm still waffling (we aren't talking "chump change" here) and am looking for some feedback from the greater mandolin community. Thanks!

[Markus]

Have you played a Breedlove neck?

It's wide and sorta chunky. I love mine, but note that there's a number of folks who have had one and sold it because of that (vs unhappy with mando). Worth noting as it doesn't fit everyone.

I am uncertain what the x braced sound like, only played the tone bar ones.

[Cary Fagan]

Breedloves are very nice mandolins and, I think, decently priced. It is certainly true that they have a somewhat different feel with those nice but wider fretboards. They also have their own sound, not quite so traditional bluegrassy although really they'd work for any music. It is best to try one if possible.

(By the way, I once read an article on how Kim Breedlove worked for Taylor guitars. And when he told the head of Taylor (whose name I forget) he wanted to start his own shop, Taylor went out of his way to help him. Even helped him build his body molds and passed on repair work to him to help his cash flow. Gave me the impression of a very fine person.)

[Ed Goist]

Is there a sound clip available for your top contender that I'm somehow missing on the site?

[Daijoki]

There isn't. I included the link to the Breedlove FF on the Mandolin Store site, only. No audio clip on the site I'm considering buying from. There are only comments in the description area.

[Daijoki]

They also have their own sound, not quite so traditional bluegrassy although really they'd work for any music. It is best to try one if possible.

Has anyone played bluegrass with someone playing a Breedlove FF? How's the chop? How's the sound on the breaks? I know that my Weber Gallatin Mahogany, for example, was hard to hear, especially on the bass end (which is one reason I eventually sold it).

[dcoventry]

Disclaimer: This is an IMHO comment:

I am glad you are looking for a new to you mando, as few things are as fun for we so obsessed. I find most of the Breedlove line to feel feel strangely light, thin and fragile in my hands and the sound has a peculiar boxiness to it that is not to MY taste. I continue to try them out as I like the cool body styles, but I personally can't get past the sound. So please, play before you buy, OR make sure there is a try-out period.

To be helpful, or at least try, I have included some links to mandos in your price range that may be of interest. Good luck, and most importantly, get an instrument that makes you want to play it!


http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/...uery=retrieval
http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/...uery=retrieval
http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/...uery=retrieval
http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/...uery=retrieval
http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/...uery=retrieval

[doc holiday]

Since you asked, I'll weigh in with my opinion. Like dcoventry above, I think there are many better options than the Breedlove. From a sound standpoint, I find them to sound quite thin (heard more than a few). That goes for single notes as well as the chop.
On the subject of the chop, many people are sometimes initially drawn to wide fingerboards or bigger necks. These make playing full 'bluegrass' chop chords more difficult. You rarely hear folks raving about the sound of Breedloves. At best you hear the 'nice mandolin,' 'decently priced'...etc. At any price point, I personally am always listening for how the instrument sounds. As an example, in recent years, as far as US made, non single luthier instruments, the Collings MT has gotten a reputation as being a benchmark instrument at a modest price. Lots of them are available used and their sound from instrument to instrument is very consistent. At your price point, I would not buy an instrument that I couldn't play first, as return shipping a few times will eat into your nest-egg. In the end you might want to be sure of your own priorities; whether it is price/sound/look....or any variation. This might help make your decision an easier one. Good luck. The search for a new instrument is always an adventure.

[Markus]

In my opinion, once you get to $1k, it's hard not to consider a tank or two of gas and one night in a hotel to road-trip to try out instruments to buy in person. At that price, you can get a mandolin to play for a decade ... if you can take the time and find just the right one for you.

Or, add a day onto a business trip in a city with a great store with a good selection and do it that way.

Then again, it might not be possible - I understand - but if I didn't have a dozen choices locally to try I would have waited a few months until I could get to Michigan and Elderly.

[Markus]

On the subject of the chop, many people are sometimes initially drawn to wide fingerboards or bigger necks. These make playing full 'bluegrass' chop chords more difficult.

I don't have huge hands yet have no issues.

In my experience, it's fretting the second fret on D + A courses with a single finger that requires absolute perfection to do 100% clean with the wide fretboard. [Think B part of Blackerry Blossom, first notes of Morrison's Jig] ... easy enough to bar for 4224 E, but 0220 with one finger is much much tougher on a wide fretboard and much easier with just that tiny fraction of an inch.

I could hit that clean on my old, thinner fretboard easier [though it sounded plinky plinky] ... on the wider fretboard I have to do a few things much cleaner to do right.


As for the Collings MT, if I was in the around $2k range I'd buy a nice used MT if unable to play many instruments in person. I've found the same consistency as Doc and also liked the feel, tone, and power.
Probably will cost more used than the FF new, but while I like my Breedlove OF, I agree with doc about the MT being my favorite once you get around/above the $2k mark - not always easy to find, but I've seen them come at reasonable prices every few months in the classifieds here [just act FAST].

--
Re: Breedlove

To me, they are one step farther than Collings in going for a more modern sound and less of the dry, old Gibson tone. [more clear, modern]. I find my OF [a style, but f hole] to be a fairly loud mandolin, with a fine chop that works quite well for me at bluegrass jams I attend ... not drowned by the banjo, unlike my prior mandolin.

It has a different tone than the old Gibsons [I'm idiosyncratic, my mandolin might be a little too] ... but when playing music, if my fingers have the instrument singing out the melody or driving the rhythm - that's the important part. The fact that it feels alive and responsive to me gives me a tool I can work with - making music that hopefully has people lost in the melody not critiquing.

I like my mandolin, I don't need doc or dcoventry to validate my decision for me. [I'm a big boy ]

I'm thankful for their posts though - in a sense, Breedlove is the Taylor of mandolins. Some people love 'em, some do not love them at all. If you want to please everyone, probably not the ideal choice [if there is one] ... nor a traditional look/sound if that's important to you in bluegrass/etc.

Your situation might call for something that falls into the more traditional looks/sound [or not].

I'm glad doc or dcoventry didn't let anyone convince him to buy a Breedlove, and I'm glad he didn't convince me not to ... as we both found the right one for ourselves. We both pick up our instruments with a smile, love to play. IMO, who cares if our tastes agree when we both love our mandolins?

[RobP]

I have a clip of me playing a Breedlove ff in a song we recorded that I can post -- it's not an x-braced version though (I don't think very many of those have been made).

How do I post an mp3 clip here? I can send by email if necessary

Rob

[MandoSquirrel]

...

(By the way, I once read an article on how Kim Breedlove worked for Taylor guitars. And when he told the head of Taylor (whose name I forget) he wanted to start his own shop, Taylor went out of his way to help him. Even helped him build his body molds and passed on repair work to him to help his cash flow. Gave me the impression of a very fine person.)

Kim's brother, Larry and Steve Henderson started the company several years before Kim went to work there.

X bracing should give a fuller sound, with more bottom than a tone bar Breedlove. More like there McKenzie, rather than the Rogue, Alpine, Cascade sound.

[Chief]

I,ve had a Breedlove FF for years, and it's simply a wonderful mandolin. I've got the one with the factory installed Schertler, and that makes it a formidable mandolin for any situation. I don't really play bluegrass, but have used it for folky/bluegrassy type stuff, and it shines bright. I get compliments all the time for its sound. I think some people are a little turned off by the non traditional look, but that's what attracted me to it. I really don't think you can go wrong with this beautiful American made instrument. Seems like some of the negative comments were from people that didn't even own one.

[Ed Goist]

After all sorts of looking for a mandolin, I've 99% settled on this one:

http://www.stringinstruments.com/pc-...ged-toner.aspx

Without getting advise that kicks me into the next tier of higher-priced mandolins (thanks in advance), I'm looking to hear from folks regarding this mandolin's sound (imagine you're blind and couldn't give a hoot about the looks of a mandolin).

...snip...

At the risk of sounding a little flippant (though I do not mean at all to discredit your inquiry), how could anyone possibly comment on the sound of a specific mandolin without hearing it?

[Markus]

I would call Dennis at TMS and ask him about the mandolin. I had quite a few questions about an accessory, and he couldn't have been more helpful.

Given he tries to find mandolins that make his customers happy and has a selection to suggest ... while I won't discourage you asking here, I also would encourage talking to them directly too.

[Daijoki]

I appreciate the time everyone's taken to reply. As for sound, I play bluegrass with folks I jam with, but I'm not looking to quit my day job. I am looking for a fitting sound. The Weber Gallatin Mahogany was too quiet. I'd like something dry and woody, but I'm not up for paying out the nose (it's not worth it for me; I have no aspirations of playing at Telluride).

In a nutshell, I'm looking for something that plays well with others (in the open jam arena) and will fend off acquisition-syndrome for a few years ;-)

[George R. Lane]

Have you considered one of the new Gallatins? They have a sitka top and maple rims and backs. That should give you the sound you are looking for.

[George R. Lane]

I see you have in your OP. It still would choose the Weber over the Breedlove.

[MandoSquirrel]

Different strokes; when I had a Breedlove QuartzKO, I tried various Webers, & one Absaroka and a Yellowstone compared favorably, but nothing to make me consider parting with the Breed. None of the others were even contenders.

[MandoSquirrel]

Kim's brother, Larry and Steve Henderson started the company several years before Kim went to work there.

....

The story may have been of Larry, he returned to Taylor when he left Breedlove.

[TheMandoShop]

[QUOTE=Daijoki;931920]After all sorts of looking for a mandolin, I've 99% settled on this one:

http://www.stringinstruments.com/pc-...ged-toner.aspx

I've got that exact mandolin for sale for $1399.00.

http://www.themandoshop.com/B-QFF-DTS.php

Most people that choose a Breedlove like the wider neck and clear tone. This one is a sweet mandolin.

[Daijoki]

Beautiful. Do you have any sound files?!

Scott (original poster)

[holajonathan]

I've got a Breedlove FF (Premier Line) on ebay right now for less than the Quartz FF you are considering.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Breedlove-Pr...item25642de8eb

Just another option to consider . . .

[mandobassman]

I'm curious about this listing. Breedlove clearly states on their website that the McKenzie is the only f-hole mandolin they make with X bracing. Quote: "The McKenzie is our only X-braced model built with F-holes. This rare combination gives the McKenzie a refined and dynamic voice." Was this a custom order? Anyway, I have been using a Breedlove OF for 5 years now. I only play traditional bluegrass. It has tons of volume and has the easiest playing neck I have ever used. I use flatwound strings and STILL get plenty of volume and tons of full, warm tone. I have never played an FF model but my understanding is the have somewhat more punchy low end. I think Breedlove makes a fine instrument that is beautifully constructed and is a great value.

[Marcus CA]

Without getting advise that kicks me into the next tier of higher-priced mandolins (thanks in advance),

For me at that price point, the only options would be a new Quartz FF or a used Collings MT. If you're lucky, you can sometimes find a used Weber Bitterroot for a couple hundred more. There is a Gallatin listed on the Cafe which is new enough that it might have a maple back, which would give more punch than the old mahogany-backed ones had. I've played Eastmans and Kentuckys in that price range and was not impressed with their tone, although plenty of people love them.

I've been playing a Quartz FF for a couple of years after playing an OF for a couple of years. I really like the neck and the look of those instruments, which seems to be a minority view around here.