Please give me pick-up advice for my KM-550

[Cue Zephyr]

Howdy folks,

As I've been busy with learning a couple dozen songs for playing along in bands to gain experience, I haven't had the opportunity to play my mandolin as it can't be amplified. I really love my mandolin, and I want to be able to use it on stage.
All the gear I have now is a Roland AC60 acoustic amplifier that I use both as amp/PA and monitor (with mono or stereo DI'ing it to the board).

I'm very interested in the K&K Twin or Twin Fusion for the mandolin. I like the idea of having the jack fixed in the mandolin, but I don't know if this is a good idea, or even possible with my KM-550. So if you could please inform me on this, that would be great.

Also, my next guitar (still far, far away), will probably also be equipped with some kind of K&K system, as I think it sounds great and Andy McKee and Antoine Dufour are getting excellent sound from it.

CZ

[Tim2723]

I know of no reason why you couldn't put an end-pin jack in a 550. That's how I would go. It sounds like you've done all the homework and are set to do the deed. The AC60 will work very well with that set up.

[Cue Zephyr]

I haven't done any homework. I've just come to know and learn about K&K and how they roll.
I'll ask Boetzkes if he could put it in my 550. It's only the Fusion system (with the external jack) that they say one can do by themselves. They recommend the one with the internal jack to be done by a professional.

Thanks.

[Rob Gerety]

Get a good pre amp or DI too.

[Cue Zephyr]

What do I need the DI for if I have the amp?

[seththedude]

I have a K&K Twin on my Kentucky 250 that works great for when I have to plug in. It was installed by a local luthier. I use a preamp as well which improves the sound and allows more control. It has been used without the preamp but a more natural sound can be achieved using it.
I ordered the K&K and had it installed for about $150 several years ago.

[Mandobart]

Wow there are hundreds of threads on pickups; which to use, how to mount (external vs internal), which pre-amp, etc. ad nauseum. Click on the "advance search" above the v-picks ad; you'll find many, especially in the equipment forum. K&K is very popular. I have one that I'm happy with. However, there are many options. I've posted this often myself, but for those who don't use the "search" option, take a look at JJB pickups. NFI for me, but I've used them and they are just as good in my experience as K&K, for much less $. May be more to get shipped overseas. I was not happy with the external carpenter jack K&K. Easy to brush the jack or wire while you're playing, and that noise gets picked up and amplified. I also think IMO that it looks terrible, worse than leaving a headstock tuner on while on-stage. I re-wired my external internally, and am much happier. Did all my instruments internal. If your shop can't do an internal mount, I would look for a different shop.

[Cue Zephyr]

seththedude,
Hmm, I thought I wouldn't need the DI/pre because of the amp I have. Guess I was wrong - thank you.
I want it internal as well, and I'm sure they can help me at Boetzkes.

Mandobart,

Yes, I've come across various topics, not through search, but through Google.
It's just that I have my mind set on a K&K already, and am already e-mailing and checking prices on the system because I want it. I was just fishing for strong arguments to not get the K&K, which I did not get.
Also, I was hoping to gain some more insight on the signal chain (which I didn't ask explicitly) - since I already have an amp which I use with an active system (magnetic switch engaged, with that off it is set to (passive) piezo).

Thanks.

[mandroid]

What do I need the DI for if I have the amp?

Ambition... Play Big Shows
A big show will have a sound guy in the middle of the house
then you feed the house mix via 'stage snake', which has lots of microphone inputs
DI provides one of those signals to plug directly in..
then you don't really need your amp, as the stage monitor does that job.

I have an AC60 too, but my only reg gig is a acoustic Jam, these days..

Just plugging the K&K output, into the instrument channel,
and pushing the Piezo button may be good enough.

[almeriastrings]

Or... your AC60 can do that job, and almost certainly better than a typical stage monitor. It has a very clean pre/power amp section and excellent speakers. It has DI line outs. It also already has a very high impedance (piezo) pickup input so unless you are planning on using a very long cable from your mandolin to your amp, you really do not need a separate pre. I would try the K&K straight into the amp first. If you get a separate pre (and don't need one) all you are doing is unnecessarily adding to the signal chain (more noise/distortion). If you do find the AC60 is not an ideal match, then think about adding in a separate pre. I've used K&K's straight into a number of good acoustic amps with excellent results. There is no problem then taking a feed from the amp to the stage box.

You get excellent personal monitoring through a dedicated acoustic amp. I have a Hartke AC75 that I use in those circumstances. No complaints.

[Cue Zephyr]

almeriastrings,
That is exactly what I was hoping to hear!
Last Saturday I used the amp as monitor, the sound guy decided upon feeding it mono to his board and had no complaints from him - it worked like a charm, the singers could hear me, the house could, and I had my own monitor. Especially in louder mixes it was nice because I could still pick out my playing as it was coming from a seperate source - that being my amp. Not just that, I won't have such a hard time dialing in the right tone, as I'm getting used to the characteristics of both my guitar and my amp.

And not just that, the amp has a very nice chorus (well, 3 choruses), and a reverb/delay unit, as well as the all-important anti-feedback notch filter (it saved me, along with the feedback-buster/soundhole cover.

Nice amp you have, by the way. I would have checked the AC75 out if they had it in stock, but they didn't!

Thanks for the reply. I will report back if I have more info on getting it installed (I'm hopeful the man who owns the shop I bought my 550 from can install it for me).

[Rob Gerety]

Sorry I mislead you there. I was thinking PA system.

[Cue Zephyr]

I never reported back, and it took some time, but I think I'm going to get that Mandolin Twin.

[Tim2723]

Popular choice. I don't think you'll be disappointed with it.

[Cue Zephyr]

I'm sure it's a popular choice, everybody seems perfectly content with their K&K systems, regardless of instrument or pick-up type it seems.
That kind of did it for me - plus at least two of my favorite artists use K&K pick-ups.

[Markus]

Please let us know how you like it. At some point soon I'm going to get one myself - it's nice to know how people like them with various equipment configurations.

As I need `the whole package' with amp and all ... I've been reading these threads for months now as money slowly accrues in my `plug in' fund. [pickup + preamp + amp + tuner is not a small total to save when I've got a two year old daughter to spoil].

[Paul Busman]

I got the JJB for my mando for the princely sum of $20. Yes, $20. It did involve drilling a hole in the side of the mandolin, but that wasn't really that difficult (and my mandolin is no costly collector's piece,otherwise I would have had a luthier do it). It doesn't sound terrific through my little practice amp which has few tone controls, but through my Irish band's PA system where I can tweak the sound it sounds great with no preamp.

[Cue Zephyr]

Markus,
I will report back.

Paul,
Interesting. However, I'm not very sure if JJB pick-ups are easy to get to here in The Netherlands. I know K&K ships worldwide and won't pay much more than the dealer sells them for locally. I'm not ordering from the dealer because I reckon he's already done his order for K&K and he doesn't normally stock anything else than the Pure or Trinity systems - I would've had to specially order the Mandolin pick-up off of him.
How 'costly' is your instrument? I put every bit of money I can get into my music, the mandolin was something I was able to buy from birthday money and to me it is quite costly. As I think it's an excellent instrument (and so does the man who sold it to me - it was also clearly audible when he did some tunes on my mandolin with a friend on guitar), I think a nice pick-up will be worth it.
That, or I'll save for a banjo. :o

[almeriastrings]

There is a guy based in NL who sells some very cheap (but good) piezo pickups.... these are silly cheap... but... use EXACTLY the same transducer elements as many far more expensive manufacturers (who mostly source the actual transducers from Asia, then repackage them). Here he is:

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/rebelpickups/...id=p4340.l2562

I fitted one of these on a guitar for a friend, and it worked very, very well. Reminded me of a Mcintyre Feather. These transducer elements seem to be made in two sizes: 15mm and 20mm. Note sure exactly what audible difference there is as I have not done a direct comparison. You can use two of these in parallel, one on the bass side and one on the treble side just by wiring them together (the only thing to make sure of is that they are correctly in phase). You can also remove the crude jack socket supplied, and instead use an endpin jack or vintage jack. Like I say, silly cheap price, but comparing on a guitar with other guitars fitted with Baggs, Micintyre, etc., at 5X or more the price, it was just as good. I must get one to try on a mandolin.

[Paul Busman]

Cue-- my mandolin wasn't costly, but I do value it highly. I do have woodworking experience, so I wasn't too afraid of drilling the hole. OTOH, if I had a more expensive mandolin, I probably would have had a luthier drill the hole or do the whole installation.

[Cue Zephyr]

almeriastrings,
I can't order one for my mandolin now (because the K&K is underway already), but I'll sure as heck keep it in mind. Thanks a lot! That is indeed dirt-cheap. :o

Paul,
Oh, there it is - woodworking experience. Very nice.
Should I have it done by a luthier? There's at least two luthiers of whom I know they install pick-ups in guitars (one of them has built guitars in the past and the other still does). The man I was planning to go to is actually the importer/dealer/seller I got my instrument from and he also does set-ups and said he would install the pick-up (I wouldn't call him any less of a professional though).
Also, the pick-up does not include a manual to DIY it. Of course, they recommend to have it done by a professional (contrary to the Fusion with the internal pick-up and external jack). I'd actually trust all of them with my instrument and the pick-up.