Tell me about: mandolin rhythm in Irish trad

[Fstpicker]

I've attended quite a few Irish sessions held locally, but in all honestly, mostly at one location. The session I attend regularly, and the most popular one in my book, is quite open and friendly to new members, as well as to established/experienced members. It doesn't seem to discourage newer players from becoming a part of the session, if they desire to, and are willing to have an open and learning (non-disruptive) attitude/frame of mind. The format is not particularly structured per say, but rather (and mostly) spontaneous in nature, as far as what songs are played next. The session lasts for at least 3 hours straight, and the time flies by rather quickly with only a few short breaks for bathroom and food and drinks. There are about 6-10 regular players who know Irish music fairly well, and anywhere from 3-6 players who know Irish music very well, and these latter ones tend to lead out in the sessions. Many of the latter group have even traveled on numerous occasions to Ireland, and have been able to develop a report with some of those sessions over the pond in the past several years. And they bring a wealth of experience and enthusiasm to the session. The purpose of the local session is to have an enjoyable time together (have fun!), and also to develop a further appreciation for Irish music, and to foster a learning environment where new tunes are able to be grasped over time. There are times when I do wish that sometimes they would have a session song list with the names and keys of each song posted ahead of time, but that is usually not the case. The leaders end up starting a tune, and the rest of us less-experienced players do our best to follow along, if we can, or we can choose to sit it out if we don't know the tune, which is usually the best common sense option for most. As a guitar rhythm player, I am usually able to figure out a good share of the tunes, as far as what the key is, and the primary chord and rhythm pattern that the tune has. However, they are also times when I just can't quite figure it out, or get it exactly right, and those are the times that I will either play very softly as to not be heard, or not play at all, out of mutual respect for the others. If there are at least one or two other more experienced Irish guitar players there, I will usually follow along with them as they play the chords, starting out very softly, and then only picking up volume if I feel very certain that I have the chords and the rhythm pattern correct.

The other session that I have attended, and one that I went to only once, I found out rather quickly that it was not an "open" Irish session, even though it was advertised by the restaurant owners as such. No, they didn't kick me out at all, but I knew that they weren't too happy to have newbies in their midst. My wife, who is a bodhran player, was also told in no uncertain terms, that only one bodhran player was allowed to play at a time, and that she and the other two bodhran players had better decide who was going to play each time, and take turns playing accordingly, and that this was always the only way Irish sessions were conducted everywhere in the US, and abroad. Thankfully, I realize that this is not always the case everywhere in the US, and neither is it in Ireland all of the time. In fact, my very well-experienced Irish music friend (from the main session) has shared many videos with my wife and I of numerous Irish Pub sessions that he had attended and participated in personally over there, have revealed to us that this is simply not the case all of the time. By the way, he is an excellent Irish whistle player, as well as an experienced button player. Anyway, the attitude of the "leader" as she informed my wife of this, was well, let's say much less than cordial, but rather quite condescending, even though she (the self-appointed leader) was a very mediocre whistle player at best herself. After our good friend, who also is a bodhran player, was told at the next session in a rude and unfriendly manner that she was not welcome, she complained to the restaurant owners who she knew quite well, and they were frankly aghast and upset with the attitude being promoted by this individual, and ended up talking with the "leader" afterwards. From what I gather, this self-appointed leader, and perhaps even some of her "cronies", were more than likely not asked to come back in that restaurant again to hold their kind of session there.

My story illustrates to you about the different attitudes of the leadership of these two vastly different sessions, leaders who truly set the mood and the tone of the sessions, and who were to a great extent responsible for their success, or as in the latter case, their probable demise. I know I will never go back to the latter place for another Irish session ever again, as I simply don't have the time to bother with those who have a less than friendly, unkind and/or rude attitude towards other players, who happen to be newbies at times. Come to think of it, weren't we all newbies at one time or another? Sometimes, some players seem to forget this "little" detail.

The purpose of my posting is not directed at any one person here by any means, but simply a sharing of my own personal experience. In some cases, this may be more of a "beware" or "be careful", so that you can be cautious when picking a new session to attend, and also get an idea of how some sessions can be at times out there. Usually, the word of a fellow musician who knows you best, can give you a "head's up" as to whether the session you are seeking is indeed one that you will want to attend or not.

I do apologize for not addressing the original poster's question here however, and for instead getting off on a tangent and/or a soap box of sorts.

As a (much less-experienced than guitar) mandolin player, I feel less likely to play the mandolin at an Irish session, at least not until I have much more experience under my belt. I would rather not make a fool of myself for starters. At least not until I have more confidence in my ability to play the melody of the tunes being chosen. But that is just me, and you may feel quite differently about it.


Jeff

[michaelpthompson]

You make a really good point foldedpath. An Irish TRAD session does become a performance of sorts, which is only one of the things that distinguishes it from a jam.

There are slow, tune-learning sessions, often on an off night. We have a couple of those at a local folk music center as well. We don't usually do tunes more than once, but we go around the circle and let each person choose. Some choose a tune they want to learn, or one they're working on, and we do it at whatever speed they choose. It's a lot more laid back than your usual TRAD session.

[michaelpthompson]

Jeff, your post highlights a lot of the reasons the OP was warned not to just show up and start playing rhythm at an Irish session. Some would have no problem with that, but as you pointed out, there are a few where such behavior will get you a stern talking to, or maybe worse. It is amusing that these people think their way is the only "right" way to conduct a session, but there you are.

Bodhrán players probably suffer this more than others, just because of the bad rep some of the really bad players give the instrument. Some people say, "I can't play an instrument, I'll just whack away on this drum." But if you don't have at least some idea what you're doing, and if you don't already know the tunes, even that is not going to work properly. Rhythm guitarists get tarred with this brush too, and a rhythm mandolin player who just jumped right in would get a similar treatment.

[Fstpicker]

You make a really good point foldedpath. An Irish TRAD session does become a performance of sorts, which is only one of the things that distinguishes it from a jam.

There are slow, tune-learning sessions, often on an off night. We have a couple of those at a local folk music center as well. We don't usually do tunes more than once, but we go around the circle and let each person choose. Some choose a tune they want to learn, or one they're working on, and we do it at whatever speed they choose. It's a lot more laid back than your usual TRAD session.

Excellent points, MT. Ideally, there should be some kind of "training" or "learning" session available locally for newbies to attend, where the tunes can be taught and/or caught, and definitely played slower than "normal". Handing out music sheets to learn off of, can be a great way to learn a tune, and a way to get everyone on the same page, so to speak. As you know, some tunes can be played many different ways, depending on who plays it, and/or where it is played. Learning it at least one way, will get you started in the right direction (hopefully), and then if you hear it played slightly different some place else, you will at least be able to recognize this, and realize also that there is not always a "right" way to play a tune, or at least not always only one way a tune is played, and certainly not everywhere.

Learning tunes off music sheets taken home from a "learner's" session, can be a great way to learn the melody. However, playing at a session at some point helps to catapult one to a new level sooner, than just playing alone by oneself at home.

At times, I have recorded songs played at a session on my Zoom H2, as simply a tool to help me learn a new tune when I get home, and certainly remember how it goes later on. And we have also had an mP3 of a new tune, at times, emailed to sessions attenders, so they can practice it at home, and be better prepared for the next learning session. As with any training/learning session, you will quite often have a mix of those really experienced players, some not so experienced, and then a continual in-flux of newbies who are coming into the session for the first time.

And there are times when we have also focused on simply one new tune that we all are trying to learn, instead of trying to learn several new tunes all at once, which can be rather overwhelming to new players/learners. The K.I.S.S. method certainly can apply here..."Keep It Simple, Stupid"!

Jeff

[foldedpath]

You think it's easy being a session leader? Read that last post about bodhran owners complaining to the venue, that three of them aren't allowed to play at the same time.

[Fstpicker]

I don't know if you directed your post at me or not, but I will say that I very much realize and understand that it is not easy being a leader!! I didn't mean to ever imply that it was, either. My very good friend, who is pretty much the leader of our main session, has expressed his concerns/burdens to me on more than one occasion. I really make an effort to thank him and encourage him that he is doing an excellent job, and also to let him know that he is very much appreciated and fully supported by all of us, and admired and respected for his role in the sessions.

In my story, only one bodhran player complained to the owner about the abusive leader, and she is an individual who is not normally a complainer by any stretch, but this situation more than called for it. If you knew personally the situation as all of us did, I am betting that you would more than likely feel the same way that all of us did in this particular situation, which thankfully (and hopefully) is probably a rare exception out there.

I rest my case...

Jeff

[Steve L]

I advised the OP that he might make a bad impression playing on tunes he doesn't know. I never dreamed that would be controversial.

[Fstpicker]

I advised the OP that he might make a bad impression playing on tunes he doesn't know. I never dreamed that would be controversial.

Hmm...I guess I don't see it quite that way at all in this thread. I believe that the overall consensus has been pretty close to unanimous with the majority of posters here, that new players would be wise to only play the tunes that they know, for their own sake first of all, and certainly for the sake of the other players, out of simple common courtesy.

I know that there are available as what is referred to as the 10 commandments for various jam sessions out there, and I believe that many of these rules could apply to some of the Irish sessions, although certainly not exclusively by any means, as the Irish sessions may have their own rules that are unique to them, and understandably so.

Jeff

[Bertram Henze]

Re. knowing the tunes: this might need some explanation.

The harder challenge is not to get the rhythm but to get the chords. Other than in a BG jam, the chords are not fixed - they're improvised. To be able to do so, you have to practise how to come up with chords for a tune you know (and the ole I-IV-V won't get you far with modal scales).

After a while, when knowing some 50+ tunes and being able to accompany them, you'll find certain recurring chord patterns you can reuse and, most important, get a feeling when to reuse them on the other 3950+ tunes you don't know. Recognizing these patterns by ear in real time and going with them is an ability slowly developing with the tunes you know, and once you got it, knowing tunes is no longer necessary.

I am talking years here, not just a few hours in preparation for your first session. Stay inconspicuous like Jane Goodall (a priceless similarity!) and learn what you can do without disturbing others. Disturbing includes things like
- asking melody players what chords you should play (many of them can't talk while playing)
- playing wrong chords
- worst of all: asking melody players what key the tune is in and then strum that single chord all the time because it seems to fit.

Look at the left hands of the guitar players there (only if they sound good), but beware! - they might have DADGAD tuning.

[stevieguitarhodges]

...can anybody suggest some strategies for playing tasteful, unobtrusive rhythm on the tunes I don't know? Do people do that on mandolin in trad music?

Corgi,

I've played (and continue to play) guitar, mandolin, and octave mandolin in Irish sessions for at least 15 years, including sessions in Chicago, Augusta, Swannanoa, and Ireland. I've got a few opinions developed over the years..

Probably the most important thing any musician can do when playing with others is to listen. There is a place for mandolin in ITM, including accompaniment, but you have to be judicious. It is ensemble playing, pure and simple, not just a mindless jam.

1. Find a session where you're welcome. People get real finicky about ITM, and you don't want to waste your time with pettiness or turf defense. Beginner sessions are great. Start your own if you want.

2. You don't have play all the time. Give it a rest if you don't know the tune. There's few things worse than someone who pounds it out clumsily and loudly on any instrument, and mandolin is no different. It's far better to underplay than overplay.

3. In my book, a mandolin player can chop lightly on reels and polkas for color IF you're certain of the chords to help drive things along, but don't pull or push the rhythm or chop hard like you would a bluegrass tune. Keep a close eye on the guitar player, and try to play his chords if you can. He's louder and boomier. Also remember that you don't have to play all your strings. You can play simple fifths on modal tunes, for instance, with just two notes. Try strumming lightly just once a measure.

4. For jigs, you really want to play the melody if possible, but if you're sure of the chords, you can try a light strum or even arpeggiating the chords. But be discrete. The latter works best if the guitar player is sweeping the chords with a pick, but if he's arpeggiating too, then it can get too "tinkly." Listen to Tim O'Brien and Andy Irvine and other octave mandolin/bouzouki players for how they integrate mandolin into Irish music. You can steal a few of those ideas for mandolin. If it works, great. If it doesn't, sit the tune out. Go get another beer.

The politics of playing ITM is to me a separate issue from the musical taste, skills, and knowledge necessary to play ITM in an ensemble setting. People are going to have strong opinions about accompaniment, the role of certain instruments, the venues, choice of tunes, etc. You should pay some attention to that, but playing any style of music with other people requires taste, volume, dynamics, tonality, etc. particularly if you don't have written parts. Listen to Bob Wills' Texas Playboys for ideas on ensemble playing. Their arrangements of relatively simple songs are masterful for their delicate interlocking parts. Less is more!

If you're a sensitive player who is familiar with the tunes and can contribute tastefully and with passion when called for, you should be welcome anywhere.

[Paul Kotapish]

Lots of great comments and advice here.

It's worth noting that the issues discussed are not unique to Irish traditional music by any means, and any particular experience--good or bad--that someone relays in relation to an Irish session can be echoed by folks who have had similar experiences at bluegrass, old-time, swing, jazz, folk, and country sessions.

In any idiom, a successful session is one in which the expectations of the players is aligned in terms of what the goals of the session are. This can range from feel-good gatherings of friends plunking along on old-time standards to the fierce cutting sessions of hard-core bop.

An exact match of skill level among the players is far less important than a shared vision about what the musical expectations for a given session is going to be.

There are plenty of seasoned professionals who are happy to play simple tunes at a moderate tempo and be inclusive of everyone who shows up, regardless of their experience. Conversely, there are some folks leading or attending sessions who have very specific aesthetic expectations. Those polar differences in expectations are entirely neutral. There's nothing wrong with either approach unless some kind of false advertising or misleading pretenses are resulting in disappointment, bruised feelings, or arguments.

Finally, there is no guarantee that a particular idiom will result in a particular kind of session. There are folks playing rarefied, highly techincal forms of old-time music that don't easily include newcomers and folks playing jazz that welcome the one-note-solo approach. Same with ITM. It's all about the expectations and goals of a particular musical setting.

The next time you have a weird time at a musical gathering, it probably has far less to do with the kind of music being played than it does with the expectations of the folks who started the session in the first place.

And, from the dead-horse flogging department, listen, listen, listen. There are plenty of ways to add rhythm mandolin to ITM sessions, but it has to be based on a good understanding of the melody and structure of the tune at hand.

[EdSherry]

I agree with Paul K. both (a) that there's a lot of good stuff here and (b) that the issues are not limited to ITM.

Getting back to the OP's question:

"can anybody suggest some strategies for playing tasteful, unobtrusive rhythm on the tunes I don't know? Do people do that on mandolin in trad music?"

Yes and no. If you're totally unfamiliar with the tune [no idea of key, etc.], IMHO the best thing to do is to sit it out, record it if you can to practice at home, and if not to ask at the end of the set for the names of the tunes [don't be surprised if the players don't know!] and look them up.

But after you've learned a bunch of tunes AND their chord progressions, you learn to recognize "common" chord progressions, even to tunes that you don't know all of the notes to. In such contexts, I'll often "chord along" quietly (!!) on tunes I don't yet know, to try to get the progressions down in my head without distracting the other players. That said, I've been at what I call "stump the band" sessions where someone pulls out a set of tunes that I've never heard before and that have unusual chord progressions that I can't quite figure out in 'real time.'

I tend to play a lot of "dyads" (two-note "chords" or "double-stops") with a moving contrapuntal line. Andy Irvine and Alec Finn are masters of this.

That said, I fully appreciate Bertram H's point that, in many ways, adding chords to trad tunes is a recent 'afterthought', and different people can readily disagree as to what "the chords to the tune" are. If you're the only rhythm player, you have a lot more freedom than you do if you have to fit in with what another rhythm player is doing. If there are others playing rhythm, often "less is better."

Like Paul K., I can't stress enough the need to listen to what's going on around you!

[SincereCorgi]

This is kinda what I had in mind:



I realize that this is a concert setting and not a 'session', but this strikes me as tasteful Irish mandolin accompaniment.

[draino]

This is kinda what I had in mind:

I realize that this is a concert setting and not a 'session', but this strikes me as tasteful Irish mandolin accompaniment.

I found the playing in the first tune fairly tasteful -- the playing in the second tune seemed very heavy handed to me. Regardless of the tastefulness, however, I can't imagine that one can develop these kinds of parts on the fly to a tune he does not know. For example, the first tune in the set the mando is basically playing counterpoint to the melody - not possible unless you know the melody.

[EdSherry]

SincereCorgi -- That's Paul Kotapish playing mando with Kevin Burke/Open House.

I was just at a show this week with "Curlew" (Paul K on guitar and mando, Bobbi Nikkles on fiddle and Maureen Brennan on harp) and got a front-row view of how Paul played rhythm mando and guitar (superbly, natch!) [Paul was even kind enough to invite me up to sit in with them on guitar on a couple of tunes. Thanks, Paul!]

There's a sense in which draino is right that this is not the sort of thing you can do well without KNOWING the tune, or at least knowing the chord progression.

But after you've got a bunch of tunes and a WHOLE bunch of hours of playing under your belt, it's often possible even on a "new" tune (one you haven't heard before) to have a decent (though not infallible!) sense of where the chord progression is going, and to play along on rhythm even if you don't know all of the intricacies of the melody.

That said, IMHO you DO have to keep an ear out for what we used to call "the funny chord" -- the part of the melody and/or the chord progression that strays away from what you "expect" it to do. And there are some tunes that are so "funny" that, for the life of me, I can't figure them out 'on the fly' even after the second or third time through the tune.

I recall a session at a friend's party last December where Kevin Carr played three tunes in a row that nobody in the room knew [a rare situation, given the quality and experence of the musicians present!] -- afterwards, we called it Kevin's "stump the band" set!

[Bertram Henze]

I found the playing in the first tune fairly tasteful -- the playing in the second tune seemed very heavy handed to me. Regardless of the tastefulness, however, I can't imagine that one can develop these kinds of parts on the fly to a tune he does not know. For example, the first tune in the set the mando is basically playing counterpoint to the melody - not possible unless you know the melody.

+1
The accompaniment to the first tune - Mulqueen's Reel, I play that one myself - is indeed impossible to do without knowing the tune very well. Accompaniment to the second tune is about what a seasoned zouk player could improvize for an unknown tune after listening to the first time round. Both are things to shoot for, but not a first-timer.

Another thing - not every session melody player can get along well with someone playing a counter-melody, some tend to get derailed by that and will tell you so.

[Gelsenbury]

I'm sure no one here had this intention, but there are multiple posters on this thread who are making Irish sessions seem mighty unfriendly and un-welcoming of beginners. There are multiple threads on the intolerance of some bluegrass and old-time jams, talking about things like "jam police" and "stink-eye," but some of the verbiage I have heard regarding Irish sessions makes that sound mild.

You know, I was thinking that when reading through the responses here and in the "session etiquette" thread. There isn't much here that actually makes me want to find a session and take part. Still interesting to read how the musical aims and corresponding customs of different musical traditions diverge!

[Narayan Kersak]

Yes, I have an approach to share, since I mainly play a lot of accompaniment, since I don't know 4 bazillion tunes. Since moving here, I'm having to relearn a whole new set of tunes, which are much different from the last session I played at.

On Jigs, be sure to strum D U D D U D. A lot of folks try to just hit the 1st and 4th 8th note in the rhythm. Don't do that. Drive it.

Know your guitar chords and follow the guitarist.

As the mandolin player, use different voicings to accentuate the tune. Sometimes I'll play the D G and A around the 1-3 fret marker, then I'll take it up to around 7-10 marker to give some nice highs.

If you don't know the chords or are having trouble following the guitarist, then just drone on the key, keeping a steady rhythm to help drive.

Focus on some counter melodies if you can. That's always fun, just don't over do it.

If you find you really have no idea what's going on. Close your eyes, sit back, listen and enjoy until the next set.

[Bertram Henze]

I'm sure no one here had this intention, but there are multiple posters on this thread who are making Irish sessions seem mighty unfriendly and un-welcoming of beginners. There are multiple threads on the intolerance of some bluegrass and old-time jams, talking about things like "jam police" and "stink-eye," but some of the verbiage I have heard regarding Irish sessions makes that sound mild.

You know, I was thinking that when reading through the responses here and in the "session etiquette" thread. There isn't much here that actually makes me want to find a session and take part. Still interesting to read how the musical aims and corresponding customs of different musical traditions diverge!

One of the outstanding differences between ITM and BG is that in ITM all players play the melody together, putting things like sync and intonation under much more pressure than in a BG break.
If you fail in your BG break, it is only your problem while the others may chop along undisturbed. If you fail in a set of reels (and are audible), the general orchestral unison impression of the session is fouled up. A session is in greater danger than a jam, therefore people tend to be more watchful there.

That does not mean that there is no other way in for a beginner than by just sitting and listening. I recommend to pick one tune they play (and which you like), ask the name of the tune (if they remember it) and practise that. Play it along with a recording, then play it along in the session the next time, and learn more tunes and so on. The important point is to work on just one tune at a time until you can play it well. Any session will honor you much more for playing one tune well than for playing 100 tunes badly. And none of those superheroes came out of their mother's womb with a fiddle in hand - they all learned from scratch just as you do.

Plus, there are sessions and sessions - from the slow, quiet, friendly and experimental beginner's session to the loud 140 bpm turbo-craic pro is a wide spectrum. Find your place, because there always is one. Irish music is so wonderful, it does not deserve to be played alone just because of unfriendly people.

P.S. every session should be interested in new people joining and developing, or else the same bunch would be playing week after week, getting older and older until digested Guinness fills their Foley katheter bags...

[danb]

I realize that this is a concert setting and not a 'session', but this strikes me as tasteful Irish mandolin accompaniment.

One of my favorite sets from one of my favorite players in one of my favorite bands.

That's Kevin Burke on Fiddle, Paul Kotapish on Mandolin, and Mark Graham on the Harmonica. Sandy Silva providing the hoofbeat. That's "Open House", and y'all should really go out and pick up their disks.

That backing is absolutely kicking Paul, and that tune as well as your gorgeous counter part has spread all over the globe. We play it that way in London, just like we did in Milwaukee, Chicago, and San Francisco too.

[JeffD]

Probably the most important thing any musician can do when playing with others is to listen. .

That can never be overstated. Not just in ITM but in OT, BG, blues, jazz, country, every ensemble group, jam, sing along, tune around.


Irish was my first tune obsession. When I first started playing Irish music I only played melody. I did not know many chords, or how to back someone up, I just knew some tunes and wanted to play them with others. What on earth would one play if not the tune? Here I come, to play tunes with these people, and here they are playing a tune I know and here they are playing a tune I do not yet know. It was inconceivable that I would know every tune enough to play on every tune, and further I could not conceive of what anyone would expect of me except to sit out, if I didn't know a tune. It never struck me in the slightest as odd to sit out a tune or a set. Its like "here you drive, I don't know the way." It seemed very natural.

I remember the first time I got exhausted at a jam. It was a mark of real progress because I knew enough tunes that I played on every one for long enough to tire out. I sat the next one out just for a break, and it struck me as odd to sit out a tune I knew.

[michaelpthompson]

Good point Jeff. A lot of sessions could be improved if people learned that you don't have to play on every tune. And you really do learn a little bit more at every session, if you're paying attention.

[Paul Kotapish]

One of my favorite sets from one of my favorite players in one of my favorite bands.

That's Kevin Burke on Fiddle, Paul Kotapish on Mandolin, and Mark Graham on the Harmonica. Sandy Silva providing the hoofbeat. That's "Open House", and y'all should really go out and pick up their disks.

That backing is absolutely kicking Paul, and that tune as well as your gorgeous counter part has spread all over the globe. We play it that way in London, just like we did in Milwaukee, Chicago, and San Francisco too.

Thanks for the kind words, Dan. I'm happy with the way that particular set worked out--heavy handed mid section and all--but I would never characterize what I do as traditional Irish music. I play a boatload of tunes that are from the Irish tradition and I have had the good fortune to play with a number of great musicians with impeccable cred in the Irish scene, but I know for a fact that I play with a strong American accent and that my tastes and proclivities are not to everyone's liking in any scene.

And I should make a disclaimer that Open House was never about being a trad Irish band, either. It would have made marketing a lot easier, but that wasn't our focus. Over the course of three CDs and a decade of touring, were seeking out the interesting nooks and crannies and occasional sparks that resulted from the intersection of four fairly strong players with pretty different musical styles. We were also interested in pushing some rather unusual sonic textures and palettes--fiddle with harmonica or clarinet backed by mandolin or OM or guitar plus foot and body percussion. Again, it was not everyone's cup of tea, but I think we did some interesting stuff.

When we did pieces with the mandolin, I typically played off against Sandy's rhythm parts to provide a solid groove or counter-rhythm rather than contouring the shape of the accompaniment to the specifics of the tune.

And while it is true that those parts were refined over time and during the recording process, they originally bubbled out of impromptu explorations in the course of sessions where I didn't necessarily know that tune all that well. That first riff, for example is typical of an approach I use all the time when backing up tunes: keeping a steady drone on an open string--typically the tonic or fifth--while improvising a little moving phrase on an adjacent string--above or below the drone. Even if you don't know a specific tune by heart, if you have a general familiarity with tunes like it, you can craft a credible backup part by just implying the changes rather than hammering them home.

As for the heavy-handed chop chords, I would agree that they would not be appropriate in many--or even most--typical sessions, but would also argue that in a roaring set they can work just fine if they are part of a larger rhythm groove, in synch with the other instruments, and are approriately synchopated rather than four-square off beats.

But I may be wrong about all of it, too.

[Steve L]

You can quibble about style but not quality. That's really great playing, Paul.

[Fretless]

Originally Posted by draino
For example, the first tune in the set the mando is basically playing counterpoint to the melody - not possible unless you know the melody.

Originally Posted by Bertram Henze
Another thing - not every session melody player can get along well with someone playing a counter-melody, some tend to get derailed by that and will tell you so.

Thank you for pointing that out! Two days ago, a member of our mid-level session dropped by the house to ask how his "style" of playing on octave mandolin was fitting in with the tunes we play. He's attended a local high-end session for a number of years and recently was taken aside and told not to play on tunes he doesn't know, which really upset him. It's a long story, but what applies to this thread is that he relies on playing what he thinks is counter-melody in order to play on every single tune, but what he's actually doing is arpeggiating random chords. It's pretty awful.

Bottom line: playing counter-melody is best left to those who can do it, and in a session setting it can be distracting to the melody players, even when done well. I'll never pull the welcome mat out from under my friend, but I sure wish I could FedEx him over to Paul Kotapish for a couple of weeks...

Fretless