What are the advantages/disadvantages of Octave Mandolins?

[Hops]

I'm looking for a new mando in the $500-$700 range (mostly just looking, unless I fall in love with something I don't know when I'll get around to buying, although I definitely want something before the summer rolls around) and I started to look into octave mandolins. The Trinity College Octave Mandolin that just popped up in the classifieds is awfully tempting.

I like the sound, and I think that they have a lot of style, but I'm just not sure of how they would play. In some videos that I've seen they seem a little awkward compared to your average mando, but maybe I'm just seeing things.

How's the volume? It seems that they're a little bit quieter than other mandos. Does the extra length affect the playability at all? Are they limited to fewer styles?

[Rick Cadger]

Maybe not great for bluegrass, but I love OMs. The TC ones are fine - I used to own one.

They are not necessarily quieter, but being tuned an octave lower the frequencies may not cut through so well in a noisy jam as they overlap with guitars etc.

The default strings on import OMs are usually far too light for the scale length, so a heavier set usually makes all the difference.

It is quite possible to drop the high E to D which effectively gives one a short-scale bouzouki.

Loads of possibilities: loads of fun. Great for folk and Irish music, and can work nicely for acoustic rock and jazz. A fair accompaniment instrument for a singer.

[GDAE]

On an octave, the chord positions would be the same as on a regular mandolin, right? So how do you make those ones that are difficult on a regular mandolin?

[Steve L]

You don't. It's really a different instrument. It's strange to think in terms of advantages/disadvantages...they are what they are. I was drawn to them by people that played them (and their longer scaled bretheren) in Irish/Scottish music. It was that music that gave the context to the instrument for me, I never would have wanted one if I just saw it in a shop.

[allenhopkins]

I play lower-range mandolin instruments -- mandola, octave mandolin, mandocello -- mostly in Celtic music, sometimes in klezmer or Jewish-"flavored" stuff, sometimes just for general-purpose folk music.

The "advantages" of octave mandolin include the fact that it's a very effective chordal instrument, especially when played with open-string "1st position" chords. It's well-suited to play harmonies, counter-melodies, bass runs etc. in combination with more traditional melody instruments like fiddle and mandolin. Its lower register, similar to a guitar's, makes it good for vocal accompaniment, where the mandolin may have too treble a voice. It can also, of course, play melody. And, no one bothers you if you put a capo on an octave mandolin.

"Disadvantages" include the much longer scale, which makes four-string "closed" (no open strings) chords difficult to finger. Also, the wider fret spacing and larger neck make it less agile than the mandolin -- harder to play really fast melodies, unless you're quite advanced. The baritone voice of the octave mandolin means that its melodies may not cut through an ensemble as clearly as a mandolin. And, of course, it's bigger and heavier to carry.

Chord fingerings are the same as a mandolin, but the "stretches" are greater; your pinky will need to get immediately involved. And the chords that are "difficult on a regular mandolin" may be darn near impossible on an octave, so you need to think about alternative fingerings, barre chords etc.

I'd never pick one over the other. Both are neat -- alike enough so that you don't have to learn a whole new set of fingerings and string relationships, different enough to lead you in different musical directions. Get one of each. The Trinity College instruments get pretty good reviews (I haven't played one, so this is hearsay on my part). Go for it!

[michaelpthompson]

I have several friends who play octave mandolins in Irish/Celtic sessions. Bouzoukis are more traditional for this sort of thing (If you can call a Greek instrument in Irish music traditional at all), but Octave mandos have a bit of a different tone to them. They play nicely with fiddles because of the similarity in tuning, and add a bottom section where a standard mandolin couldn't because of its short course.

[Hops]

The default strings on import OMs are usually far too light for the scale length, so a heavier set usually makes all the difference.

would it be more difficult to find strings? Would normal mandolin strings work or do they need a specific kind?

[mandroid]

My Picking buddy has an Irish Zouk, another Octave instrument , chords it instead of guitar, accompanying his tenor voice.

It is much lighter to carry than a Banjo..

would it be more difficult to find strings? Would normal mandolin strings work or do they need a specific kind?

they are cut shorter in the package..

For spare strings , Ball Breaking is a good thing, to learn how to,
as many more shops will have a variety of gages of a guitar string,
than a long loop end string.

[SincereCorgi]

Hops, I don't know if you've got a music background already, but one thing to consider with the octave mandolin is that you're going to be more or less going it alone compared to the regular mandolin. In other words, there's very little instructional material and few recordings, and you'll have to invent your own technique by fusing tenor banjo, mandolin, and guitar ideas. Also, unless you want to play Irish music, there is still a certain 'weird' factor to the octave– you'll have to get used to explaining what it is to people and then answering through gritted teeth 'why on earth you play that'.

[Hops]

Hops, I don't know if you've got a music background already, but one thing to consider with the octave mandolin is that you're going to be more or less going it alone compared to the regular mandolin. In other words, there's very little instructional material and few recordings, and you'll have to invent your own technique by fusing tenor banjo, mandolin, and guitar ideas. Also, unless you want to play Irish music, there is still a certain 'weird' factor to the octave– you'll have to get used to explaining what it is to people and then answering through gritted teeth 'why on earth you play that'.

These are very good points that I didn't really consider. I don't have much of a music background. I figured that I would just be able to adapt regular mandolin instructional books to the OM. The weird factor isn't really an issue, just playing the mandolin is pretty weird to most of my friends- though I do hope to one day begin jamming with people, and then I could see it being more of an issue. I'll most likely just keep my eyes open for a good deal on a mid-ranged mando

[bgjunkie]

Check out http://thespps.org/blog/2010/02/09/t...-in-a-whisper/. Listen to Tim tracks 10 - 16 in the first set to get an idea of what can be done on an octave or bozouki. I have Tim's Mandolin & Bozouki video from homespun and love it. I have an Trinity College octave (one of the older less expensive ones). I love it.

[Mandobart]

I have two shorter scale OM's, both around the 20" range. Four finger mando chords, like a standard G-chop (7-5-2-3) are near impossible. However, there is a new world of barre chords that I find hard to do on a mando due to cramped spacing that work great on the OM, i.e. 2-4-5-2 (index finger across 2nd fret) is a D and can move anywhere. Same with an A 2-2-4-5. Easy to make either of these minor by flatting the 3rd. There's lots more. I feel that playing multiple mando family instruments helps me to progress on all of them. I'll discover something on the longer scale (OM or mandocello) that wouldn't be as obvious on the mandolin, such as different chord positions. I don't know about TC's as I've never played one, but I can say that my Tom Jessen oval hole F can cut through about any jam I've been in. Here's a couple samples, FWIW:

[Rick Cadger]

would it be more difficult to find strings? Would normal mandolin strings work or do they need a specific kind?

Depending on the scale length of the specific OM in question, the playing style of the player and the set-up, many people use D'Addario mandola strings for OM. I used J72, but others prefer the heavier J76. For longer scale OMs that the TC, J80 OM strings are fine. They're a bit light for TC length OMs though, IMHO.