Can I Increase the Value of My Used Mando by Distressing It?

[Rob Gerety]

I once put a 350 Chevy truck engine (V8, 4 bolt main, 4 barrel carb) in a Toyota Landcruiser thinking it would increase the value. It turned the thing into a rocket ship. But, it cost $2000 to do it and it reduced the value by $2000 so it was a $4000 hit. I was 22 years old at the time. Since then I've never been a fan of modifying things - I pretty much leave everything stock if I am going to resell.

[Bernie Daniel]

You're kidding.. yes?

Actually I don't think its purely cosmetic. Do you accept the fact that as wood and finish age in a mandolin (not everyone does) the tone improves?
If so then perhaps if you can accelerate that aging process with heat, moisture, oxidation (I think all of those are part of the treatment) in theory, anyway, you can improve the tone?

Those into distressing think both the tone and appearance are improved by it.

It could very well make sense from a chemistry point of view actually -- but distressing has never done much for me either.

[Bernie Daniel]

I once put a 350 Chevy truck engine (V8, 4 bolt main, 4 barrel carb) in a Toyota Landcruiser thinking it would increase the value. It turned the thing into a rocket ship. But, it cost $2000 to do it and it reduced the value by $2000 so it was a $4000 hit. I was 22 years old at the time. Since then I've never been a fan of modifying things - I pretty much leave everything stock if I am going to resell.

What?! Didn't the Landcruiser already have a more sophisticated (I did not say better) 32 valve V8? Now if you could have put a Keith Black aluminum Hemi in there...........actually you'd have still lost money. Nevermind.

[John Soper]

If you'd like to put some distressing on you mandolin, just send it to me- authentic wear from mando spanking and no charge, as long as I can send it back when I'm sure that it is "dun right".

[JEStanek]

Keith, the Gibson process is proprietary. I think many other builders who are good at it keep their cards close to their chest as well. I guess the point is to simulate normal wear, metal oxidation/tarnishing, and finish trauma of many years in the matter of days.

Jamie

[Wayne Stuvick]

Jon Z -- Now this is just my opinion, so for what’s it worth, I think Rob G. learned a good lesson early and gave some good advice. I too learned a long time ago that you can’t make chicken pie out of chicken litter.

You said, “This will make it lower in value (to) the same instrument in "minty" condition.” Not necessarily. I would never buy a mandolin based on how it looks: distressed, new, gorgeous, or whatever. To me, the more important priorities are: playability, tone, loudness and intonation.

Well, maybe sometimes the looks of a mando comes into play. A jam I played in this summer had a guy in it that had made his mandolin. I noticed that his bridge was close to a 45 degree angle with the strings and he said he had to do that to get better intonation. I thought, now that’s going to be a tough sell.

[frankenstein]

Time is expensive especially when you speed it up.

[bmac]

Since some of us believe that distressing improves tone,, then I guess that is why there are so many folks with multithousand dollar instruments beating them with chains, dragging them in gravel and carrying them uncased in the back of pickup trucks over unpaved roads.

I'll bet those instruments sound great!

[journeybear]

I admit to not having done a lot of research on this, but I would say, if I could sum it up in one word, no. Artificial distressing just doesn't seem the same as playing an instrument for years and years. Now, if in all that time spent playing it, you have also become famous - well, then, that would increase the value of your used mandolin. But that would be more on account of your having played it than just it having been played. If you don't believe me, check out how much higher a price a famous player's mandolin fetches than a similar one, whether or not in better shape or in more distressed shape. So my advice is to concentrate on becoming famous and then selling your mandolin. Seems a surer route to success in this area. And in a few others, too, I reckon.

[Big Joe]

I probably have more experience with all this than anyone else who has posted on this post. I can say honestly that it will not automatically improve the value of your instrument, and since it is not cheap to do right, it may well cost you more and you may not get any increase in price after, so you lose money. I would never try to tell someone it would increase the value of the instrument. It may in some cases, but when you consider the cost of the distressing, you would have a hard time winning from a dollar stand point. If you keep a good instrument long enough you will get more from it than you paid and that has nothing to do with distressing. Over time you may actually make money on your distressed instrument, but no one in their right mind would guarantee that. On the other hand, having it properly distressed does not mean it will necessarily be worth less than it would without the distressing.

The decision to distress should never be made lightly and should only be done if you have decided this is something you want for you... yourself... and would be willing to live with for the remainder of your life. If that is the case, you may well be a candidate for having your mandolin distressed. There are some advantages to having distressed mandolin, but it still is not a decision to be taken lightly.

There are some that will maintain a higher value than the non distressed counterparts. Those are the mandolins that are a seperate product from the non distressed model. The best example is the Gibson MM vs the Gibson DMM. The DMM sold new for substantially more than the MM. On the used market they bring more than the MM, but since the economy tanked they have lost a higher percentage of value than the MM did. That will change again as things get better most likely. The prices have already been moving up on both models and the rarity and quality of each will drive prices on those products even higher.

Some have felt there would be no difference in tone from the original to the distressed. I can only speak for the ones I have been involved with, and in each case those mandolins certainly sounded better after than before. They were more open, often louder, and had an older sound than pre distressing. Whether the change is worth the cost is for each person to decide, but there is a very positive result from the distressing process if done correctly.

The distressing process does NOT include dragging behind a truck or just scraping it up. It is a very careful process that is quite time consuming and labor intensive. It requires quite a bit of research and knowledge of the instrument you are working on, vintage mandolins, the finish material you are working with, and the means to obtain the results you desire. We do distressing and do several a year but we are not excited about discussing those methods with anyone else. My experience is that someone would try this that should not and it would ruin their instrument. This is certainly not something you should try on your own. Once you get into the process and realize you are in over your head it can cost a LOT more to undo the damage you've done than to have it done right to begin with.

We just finished a distressing process on a mandolin yesterday, and the owner picked it up. It looked great and the tonal change was immense. First, we stripped the mandolin to the white, refinished it in a varnish, then distressed it. The varnish was an improvement, but so was the distressing. It is a completely different mandolin from what it was originally. As it was hanging on the wall waiting to be picked up several customers came in wanting to know about the "old" mandolin. They were blown away when they learned it was only a couple years old and could look that good and sound that good. They began to ask about having theirs done. I discouraged them from doing that until they knew without a doubt that was how they wanted to spend their money. They both own Gibson mandolins.

The mandolin they were examining (the one we distressed) was a "The Loar" LM700. It was a good mandolin to begin with, but was certainly an incredible instrument after. It is easily worth as much or more than what it sold for originally. Is it worth what the owner has invested? Who knows? It is the only varnish Loar and the only distressed Loar, and it sounds and looks great. What is that worth? Whatever someone is willing to pay. In this case, again, it was a substantial improvement to the instrument but certainly not for the light of heart. The owner is extremely pleased as are we. I would loved to have kept that mandolin. It certainly is the best sounding, best playing LM 700 I've seen. That is a matter of varnish finish, great setup, and the distressing, and a good instrument to start with. If any of those factors were lacking it would not be able to obtain the end result it has.

Distressing a mandolin will not make a pig a Kobe steak. It will only make an interesting pig. If the instrument does not have the capacity for improvement, there will be a change, but not necessarily make it any better than what you have. That is the other part of the distressing process. At Gibson we chose the very best for distressing. When we evaluate an instrument for distressing we have to determine the instrument itself it going to experience a positive change as well. Fortunately, we have not been wrong yet. I will say again, it is not for everyone and should only be undertaken after the consideration of resale has long subsided in ones mind. Will it be more valuable? I would suggest that you assume it will not be more valuable and you will be out of pocket whatever the distressing costs. It is not cheap and is not really reversible. If you decide it is for you, be very careful who you have do the job. I have seen some pretty bad jobs and some pretty good ones. Then be prepared to live with that decision for a very long time. For me, I have no problem with a distressed mandolin. I kind of like it.

One of the good things is you don't worry about minor dings or scratches. When the customer picked his up yesterday someone was looking at it (with the owners permission) and bumped it. It did not hurt the instrument, but he was worried about possibly scratching the mandolin. The owner just smiled and said go ahead! It won't hurt it. Of course, it was not hurt and we all had a good laugh. The point is that you no longer have the fear of normal wear they all experience. You just relax and have fun with them and don't worry about the things that used to drive you nuts.

One customer had a new and very nice Gibson. He somehow put a very, very minor ding on the headstock. He sent it to us. It took up about 30 minutes to find the pinhead sized ding in the top edge of the headstock. The owner decided he wanted the mandolin distressed so those little dings would not drive him crazy. He could live with the distressed mandolin, but not the dinged one. We distressed the instrument after trying to talk him out of it. He has had the mandolin for some time and absolutely loves it. It sounds better, plays better, and does not bother him with the little every day dings. He is happy and calls occasionally to tell us how happy he is.

Bottom line is pretty simple. Distressing has its advantages and disadvantages, but it is certainly not for everyone and should not be undertaken lightly. It should only be done by someone you feel is very capable of getting the results you want and you understand that what you get is what you get. I would discourage anyone from having it done, but it can be a very cool and wonderful result when completed for the right person.

[John Gass]

I can back this up as I am the customer that Joe is talking about. I in no way did it for financial reasons. I did it simply because I like it. Like any other "hobby" each person has their own opinion about what they like and dislike. I know there are people that will love the way my mandolin looks and others who will scoff at the fact that I "did such a thing". Fact of the matter is that if someone doesn't like it, I'll glad refund them all of the money they spent on it. :P

[adlerburg]

Joe.... what does it cost to do a distress job "correctly"?

[adlerburg]

I can back this up as I just had this done to my mandolin by Joe. I in no way did it for financial reasons. I did it simply because I like it.

Hi... can you post 'fore and 'aft pictures?

[Keith Erickson]

Keith, the Gibson process is proprietary. I think many other builders who are good at it keep their cards close to their chest as well. I guess the point is to simulate normal wear, metal oxidation/tarnishing, and finish trauma of many years in the matter of days.

Jamie

Jamie, I appreciate your freedback and can completely respect Gibson or whoever elses decision to keep the process to themselves.

....it was more of a curiosity question. I believe Joe's comments go into a great deal of detail.

Oh and by the way Joe, Thank you for posting your comments. They do bring a sense of insight and least from where I'm sitting

[John Gass]

Hi... can you post 'fore and 'aft pictures?

That's on my agenda for this afternoon when I get home from work. I'd be more than happy to.

[Big Joe]

The cost of distressing depends upon the instrument being distressed. In some cases the instrument may have to be refinished in a finish that will distress. This will improve the mandolin all by itself as well as the distressing. However, it does increase the cost of the job substantially. Each job is looked at carefully and then a final price determined before starting. In our shop, once we give a price it will not exceed that period.... unless the owner alters something once the process is started.

As a rule I would suggest thinking in the 1-2K range. It may on a rare instance be less, and could exceed that on some instruments. Again it is not cheap but for some is a great thing. The only way we determine a price for the distressing on any mandolin is after we have the instrument in hand for examination, then clear discussion with the owner so everyone is on the same page and knows exactly what to expect and the limits there may be. If the instrument is not a good candidate, we would tell the owner clearly out front. If we accept an instrument for distressing, we try to make sure everything is known out front as much as can possibly be and then proceed from there. The length of time it takes can vary greatly depending upon what has to be done to that instrument to accomplish the end result.

Hope this helps and gives a guide. Again, it is very time consuming and labor intensive. Anything we do is based on the amount of hours and materials it takes to do a job. Pricing on a job like this is dependent upon how much time we expect it to take to do the job right.

[Cheryl Watson]

If you plan on keeping your mandolin and you like the look of distressed (and you really want to do this) then practice a lot first and when you feel your skills are under control, then distress it.

If you are planning on selling it, distressing it will NOT increase the value. It might, in some cases, increase your chances of selling it to individuals would buy it instead of the same model with a few dings/scratches because they prefer the distressed look. Likewise, it would decrease your chances of selling it to players who do not like the distressed look and well, there are more in that camp, I think.

[woodwizard]

I have been thinking about the fact that people pay to have an instrument distressed.

Let's say I have a Gibson mandolin that is a couple of years old and has a some dings and scratches. This will make it lower in value the same instrument in "minty" condition. Could I bring the value of my mandolin up by distressing it? Would I have to have it professionally distressed? What type of instrument can have its value increased by distressing and what type cannot.

I have no opinions about distressing instruments or the people who pay for it. (Anyone who pays significantly extra to have a curled chunk of wood attached to his instrument cannot judge others' tastes or spending choices.) I am just curious about the economics of distressing.

The simple answer is: Not likely

PS ... I know some mandolin players that are pretty good at distressing a mandolin. I never let them play mine

[journeybear]

... Fact of the matter is that if someone doesn't like it, I'll gladly refund them all of the money they spent on it. :P

Yes sir, you said a mouthful there! Great way to put it. If only people would express their opinions about things that ain't any of their business in a way that only they would hear it. Unsolicited opinions and advice are among the rudest things that spill out of peoples' mouths. I try to keep doing this myself, sometimes unsuccessfully.

That said, I just wanted to say this about that -









And I mean that sincerely!

[fredfrank]

If you really want to see an increase in the value of your mandolin, have your favorite player(s) autograph it on the top with a sharpie pen. Man, that will do it, for sure.

[John Gass]

If you really want to see an increase in the value of your mandolin, have your favorite player(s) autograph it on the top with a sharpie pen. Man, that will do it, for sure.

Hahaha that just about made my day!

[John Gass]

Here is the post with my before and after photos. It does look better in person but these give a general idea of the work done. Check it out!

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...500#post878500

[Rick Cadger]

Looks good to me.

[adlerburg]

Wow... that headstock looks 100 Years old.
I have to think the act of distressing alone will not have an effect on the tone. Of course if the instrument has to be stripped of the lacquer (like in this case), then a "distressable" and better finish is applied, then I would agree that would most probably change the tone. But I would assume that difference in tone is due to the new finish, and not the distressing.

[Ben Milne]

If your name came up in this thread quite a bit, and you distressed your mandolin gradually over a period of time, by touring the world, playing your mandolin in shows for lots of folk who post in such threads, then perhaps the value of your mandolin could be increased...

If your name is JonZ or Ben Milne etc, then probably not.