Scotty Stoneman.....

[Murphy Slaw]

Buying this old mandolin from George Gruhn a few years back introduced me to a musical wizard. While best known as a fiddler, he could play anything. The more I researched Mr. Stoneman, the more impressed I became of not only his skill, but the many recordings he was on in such a short time. I have talked to Donna (Stoneman) a few times, and Chris Thile signed the back of the headstock after I talked him into it. "S S" is scratched into the back by the heel.

Anyhow, I know from lurking that many of you have years of stories to tell, and Chris Warner mentioned in another thread that he had played with Scotty, so.......

I would be most gratefull for any Scott Stoneman memories, facts, pictures, ect., anyone would like to share.

Thanks in advance.

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[Willie Poole]

Just about all of them that I can tell you about Scotty would be deleted on here before anyone read them....He was my neighbor for a few years back in the mid 50`s....Scotty relied on a lot of "Trick fiddling" as I call it, he knew his way around the fiddle but on a lot his songs he was rough and the trick fiddling made it sound a lot better....His best arrangment was, in my opinion, The Lee Highway Blues....

I had a friend send me two cassettes with Scotty along with Buzz Busby and some other pickers here in the DC area and like a fool I erased them because I figured I had heard everything both of them had played many times.... after that I decided to get a CD burner and start burning things like that onto CD`s.....Scotty wasn`t a picker that you could rely on to show up for a gig, thats all I will say at this time.....

Willie

[Mandoist]

An amazing talent...call it "trick" or whatever. His brain held thousands of licks. Scotty did use the term "trick" fiddling, but I never figured it for more than being humble. I also think there's a difference between 'rough' and 'edge'...Scott had The Edge. Listen to his melodic backup and solo work on recordings by Busby, Red Allen, etc. Un-freakin-believable!

As for autographs, they mean nothing to me... but kudos to Thile for trying to talk you out of having him mess with a piece of history like that.

Too many stories to tell for sure, and not all negative. But two things I immediately recall every time I listen to his playing, or someone asks: Seeing him break a bow, and watching him mash his bow across all four strings.

I love to hear Cleveland whip-off Scotty licks. He may be the best living fiddler at applying that wildness in his playing. Randy Howard definitely had that stuff down.

Sure would love to trade for any live shows of Scotty with anyone who has a recording. There are so few.

[Charley wild]

Call his fiddlin' anything you want, I've never heard anyone play "Fire on a Mountain" like Scotty! Just amazing!

[jim simpson]

His work with the Kentucky Colonels was great.

[Willie Poole]

I used the word "Trick" because that is what Scotty called it, When you make a fiddle sound like a train, a semi, a dog that has been hit by a car, and bird chirping doesn`t that fall into the trick fiddling area?...AND..I have sat and listened to him and Buzz many hours and in my opinion Scott was a little rough with his fiddling when compared to people like Buck Ryan, and Chubby Wise both of whom were from the DC area and fiddling around the same time Scotty was here....I know most of you have only heard him on recordings which can be dubbed over and played through an EQ and most of them would make my fiddle playing sound good and I don`t even play one....If you seen Scott in person you would know what I mean when I say "rough", now I`m talking about a man back in the `50`s playing a bars and he probably never played one where he wasn`t pretty wasted himself.....I have lots of stories about him and Buzz, but like the man said "Don`t be negative about them"....I thought the world of both of them and all of the Stonemans that I met back then, just telling it like I saw it....I am in my 70`s and have seen and played with a lot of those DC bluegrassers......Willie

[SternART]

There is a CD available, of him playing live in LA with the Colonels.......poor sound quality, but decent enough to listen to I think he influenced Richard Greene, who influenced Darol Anger, etc.......Here is a bit of a review I found:

Recorded live at the Cobblestone Club North Hollywood, California between June and August 1965. Includes liner notes by Jerry Garcia, Richard Greene, Alex Tottle, and Peter Rowan.

Although this is a straight bluegrass record, it will attract more crossover attention from rock and country listeners than the average such thing, not so much because of the featured artist as the backing band. For on this 1965 recording, fiddler and singer Scotty Stoneman was backed by the Kentucky Colonels, who include a young Clarence White on guitar and vocals, prior to White's leap into country-rock. Too, Stoneman had his admirers among other musicians who moved from folk to rock, such as Jerry Garcia, who enthusiastically calls Stoneman "the bluegrass Charlie Parker" on the back cover sleeve note (written in 1991). More fulsome praise by those who straddled the bluegrass and rock worlds is offered in the booklet, where Richard Greene and Peter Rowan go into some rather technical commentary, though with a similarly fervent admiring tone. As for the actual recording, it's perhaps a little less spectacular than some of the observations might lead you to expect, partly because the sound quality, though OK, isn't sparkling. Most of the largely traditional material is instrumental, giving Stoneman many chances to play rapid, extended passages that, certainly by bluegrass standards of the era, had a daring intensity. Such playing on one track, "Eighth of January," comes in for particularly ardent praise by Garcia.

[Gail Hester]

Lots of Scotty Stoneman here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN7v3g2f2Oc

[SternART]

No Scotty, but check out Donna's mandolin playing on this one I found following Gail's link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsRgZ...eature=related

[Ivan Kelsall]

Quote - "Cleveland whip-off Scotty licks...." .Young Michael Cleveland has more than a smack of Benny Martin in his playing as wellan absolutely ace player,
Ivan

[Murphy Slaw]

I know most of you have only heard him on recordings which can be dubbed over

I'd bet serious money the recordings on "1965 Live In L.A." weren't dubbed. By whom? Scotty was dead before the technology was available.

I've heard, and read, a lot about Scotty Stoneman in my research but I must say you are the ONLY person I've ever seen call his playing "rough".

[swampstomper]

For some great examples of Scotty's playing, must-listening is Keep on Going backing up Red Allen. Only 4 cuts including the title are Scotty but WOW! The followup County CD Lonesome and Blue features a young Richard Greene trying his best to absorb Scotty's style.

Another modern fiddler who has obvious Scott Stoneman influence is Annie Staninec of the Kathy Kallick band, listen to their lastest project Between the Hollow and the Highrise'. This band was at EWOB last May, it was eerie standing next to the young Ms Stanicec and hearing echoes of the hard-living Scott Stoneman.

[Willie Poole]

Listen to the video of Scotty on the Arthur Godfrey Show and you will hear a huge difference in his fiddling between 1956 and 1965....As I stated before I knew Scotty in the mid `50`s and he had 10-15 years to improve before getting noticed out in Calif....a lot of what I refer to as rough is probably his fiddle tone and also some of his slow tunes were not right on key in the 50`s, a lot of fiddle players sound good when they play up beat tunes because they don`t have to hold the notes very long and if they are a little off no one really notices it....I still say Scotty was a little rough when compared to many, many fiddle players in his time.....BUT...That is just my opinion and maybe I am a little harder to please than some others, I know I am when it comes to my band playing, I want it as near perfect as we can get it, Sorry if I stepped on anyones toes, if you like Scotties playing, fine, I can take or leave it and most of his recordings are real decent....Him and Buzz at one time recorded for WebCo records which was owned by Buzz`s brother, Wayne, and they did have dubbing equipment in those days plus if a song didn`t come out right they played it until they were satisfied with it, that don`t happen when playing out in a club, if you make a boo-boo it stays, so listen to as many "live" recordings of Scotty as you can and maybe you will see what I mean by "rough"....I don`t mean to take anything away from his talent because he surely was a crowd pleaser and knew how to entertain an audience, its just that sometimes it sounded like his bow was not touching the strings correctly and there would be a screech or a buffered sound....I don`t how to explain it except to say it was "rough"...I`ve heard the same said about Eddie Stubbs playing and both of those gentlemen are/were friends of mine and I don`t really mean to be bad mouthing either of them....Its just my opinion of their playing....GEEZE.....Willie

[Tom Mylet]

Here's a story about Scotty that his sister Roni told me...but please be forewarned, Roni told me the story like it was a big joke but the ending took my breath away and not in a pleasant way.

I was part of a band that recreated some of the Pops Stoneman 78s for a Stoneman tribute weekend in Galax, VA. The next night Donna, Patsy and Roni were the finale. At dinner before their show Roni asked me if I knew her brother Scotty and told me the following:

Scotty and Bennie Martin were always, kiddingly, claiming they were the world champion fiddler and could beat the other, especially when they had a drink or two. One night about 2am Bennie went to an abandoned gas station where a friend lived His friend was known to sell liquor by the drink. When Bennie got there it was dark. He managed to get in and headed toward the back room where the resident bootlegger was sleeping. Bennie knocked something over, waking his friend, who without hesitation grabbed his pistol and shoot toward the noise.

He managed to hit Bennie in the foot. Bennie, ever resourceful, cleaned the wound by putting it in the toilet and flushing it a few times. As luck would have it, a week or so later Bennie's foot was infected badly enough that he went to the Emergency Room. While lying on the gurney, the doctor asked Bennie what he did for a living. Bennie of course replied that he was the world's greatest fiddler.

The doctor said "what a coincidence, the last guy I worked on said he was the world's greatest fiddler." Bennie asked his name and the doctor said "something Stoneman." Bennie; "where is he now?" The doctor hesitated a second or two and said: He's down in the morgue." I'm not sure how long I stood there in the buffet line, stunned but it didn't seem to have any effect on Roni.

I'd love to have that "edge" in my music but if that's what it takes....

[AlanN]

Niles Hokkanen admired his fiddle playing, and likened it to Buzz Busby's mandolin stylisms. It was firey and very personal. In one of Niles' mandolin books, he lays out some of Scotti's lines and you can hear/see/feel the groove.

I like that Live in LA record.

[evanreilly]

I have a fairly good collection of Scotty Stoneman material. He had the 'Wow' factor in spades.
There are several youtube videos of him with the 'family' band, the Bluegrass Champs..
Search for Arthur Godfrey's talent show; that is a great clip.

[Salty Dog]

Gosh Willie, maybe you are getting grumpy with age, being critical of Scotty and Eddie in the same thought - next you might be saying your buddy Dudley can't sing (just kidding!). This discussion made me look at some of the Stoneman family stuff on UTUBE and it really warmed my heart seeing pretty little Donna prancing and playing again - perhaps it was the Famous Bar and/or the Alamo where I saw them perform. I had forgotten the Famous Bar where I probably saw every important bluegrass figure of the early 60's. Unfortunately most of them were men, but my memories of Donna are very strong. What a mandolin player she was - for the unbelievers; try playing a few hot licks and prancing around (in time) the way she did and still does. The videos don't really carry and present the drama and feel of the live performance. Some of the recent UTUBEs show that she is still very pretty, tiny, prancing a little, but as an old man now it is her (still) fiery mandolin picking that makes my engine roar. Scratch that last thought, everything she does makes my engine roar, which is why I can't remember many of the other performers or bands at the Alamo and Famous Bar.

[f5loar]

Scotty influenced many fiddlers, most noted is Richard Greene who took his style to another level of trick fiddling.
Roni is your best source for Scotty stories and she has quite a few unreleased tapes of her brother. She also wrote a book a few years ago that has some pretty nice Scotty stories in it.

[Murphy Slaw]

Scotty influenced many fiddlers, most noted is Richard Greene who took his style to another level of trick fiddling.
Roni is your best source for Scotty stories and she has quite a few unreleased tapes of her brother. She also wrote a book a few years ago that has some pretty nice Scotty stories in it.

I bought the book the same day I bought the mandolin. Walked across the street to Ernest Tubbs and bought EVERYTHING that said Stoneman.

What a legendary family......

[Willie Poole]

BOOKS DON`T TELL EVERYTHING....I`m sure Roni wouldn`t be telling many stories that would embarass the family either....I`ll see if I can find a copy of her book.....

[D C Blood]

I expect Roni will tell whatever comes into her head, embarassing the family or not...

[mrbook]

One of the live Kentucky Colonels records has Scotty doing "Let Me Fall" - his fiddle break scared me the first time I heard it, with all that intensity. Still makes me wonder what was inside a person to take that break.

[Mandoist]

For some great examples of Scotty's playing, must-listening is Keep on Going backing up Red Allen. Only 4 cuts including the title are Scotty but WOW!

You all should not let these recordings slide past your ears! I also have a fair amount of live Scotty on tape -- but his playing on these recordings, "Close By" in particular, is simply natural and precise fiddling...and a picture perfect example of how to play backup fiddle. Arguably Scott's best studio work. The solos are, of course, amazing...but the backup is nothing short of phenomenal.

I have used these recordings (and some of Earl's live performance backup banjo work) to demonstrate the dynamics of backup in a band to students. I would never expect anyone to be able to reproduce Scotty's sounds. But, again, I have to say that Mike Cleveland and Randy Howard have come the closest in reaching that raw sound & energy level whilst slipping some 'Scotty' in their stage work from time to time.

[theCOOP]

I only just heard of Scotty Stoneman for the first time today. I was at a local used-goods outlet and grabbed a bunch of vinyl LPsand brought them home.

Among a bunch of Harry Hibbs (Newfoundland accordian player) and Clancy Bros records I picked up also one John Allan Cameron (Cape Breton) LP, "Best of The Country Fiddlers" by Al Cherry, King Ganam & Ned Landry and finally, a Scotty Stoneman LP...or so I thought :/

The first I put on the turntable was the Scotty Stoneman album and was dissapointed to find that it was actually Golden Hits of Roger Miller

[f5loar]

Pretty sure that Scotty LP is out on CD. While there are some real gems not out on CD, finding Scotty stuff is pretty hard. There were several 45s that didn't make it to LPs. I would guess the reason Scotty was not a Bluegrass boy was due to personal problems that most everyone knew at the time. He would have made a goodun'.