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Thread: "Correct" Keys for Choros

  1. #1
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default "Correct" Keys for Choros

    All right... someone please straighten me out on this. There is a body of work that all the players know, so I am dutifully accumulating the proper books (thanks to Al, Doug, Linda and others). But i take a look at some of the standards and they seem to be transcribed into different keys. For instance, Não Me Toques in the Tocando book is in D minor. In Mike Marshall's book and it is in A minor. Is there an explanation for that? How do you know which one to learn. I have Odeon in e minor in Marshall but in D minor in Mair/Sa and other places. I know the hot shots can probably play it in any key, but what are we mortals to do?

    PS I have not gotten the "white" book yet... there may be other keys there??
    Jim

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  2. #2
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Correct" Keys for Choros

    I guess no one really wants to answer this question. I just figure if I learn a tune on one key but there is some consensus that it is in another key... what do I do?
    Jim

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  3. #3
    Registered User Doug Hoople's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Correct" Keys for Choros

    Hi Jim,

    Sorry, I didn't see your first post. Choro gigs and company Christmas parties getting in the way of the important stuff!

    You'll be relieved to know that there are only a couple of tunes that are played in different keys. You'll find that most of them are only played in one.

    Problem is, the ones that are played in more than one key are biggies, including the ones you mentioned, plus

    Carinhoso
    Rosa
    Tico-tico
    Brasileirinho

    The reason for these generally comes from the instrument that was dominant when the tune became established.

    'Brasileirinho,' for example, was written originally for cavaquinho, and Waldyr Azevedo used all sorts of cavaquinho tricks in that key. On the other hand, it's a easier to play for guitar and bandolim in A, so there's a commonly played version in A. It generally gets played in G, so if you have to learn just one, G's the one.

    'Odeon' is an interesting case. The original was written in C# minor as a fully-composed piano piece, and C#m is a lousy key for most rodas de choro. So the rodas in Brazil adopted Dm, with Jacob (an Ernesto Nazareth fanatic, btw) leading the way. Solo guitarists transcribed the piece, transposing it into Em, and that's how 'Odeon' travelled to the Northern Hemisphere, with guitarists who were mixing some Nazareth in with their Villa-Lobos. Mike picked up 'Odeon' from a North American guitarist who played it as a solo piece, and he developed his solo mandolin arrangement in Em as a result. He told me a few years back that he was dismayed to find the bandolimistas in Brazil playing 'Odeon' in Dm, because of the rodas, thus diminishing interest in his solo arrangement. If you're learning just one, it should be Dm, which creates a quandry for mandolinists, because Mike's solo arrangement is so tasty.

    'Carinhoso' and 'Rosa' are both sung, and singers are, as we all know, the world's #1 reason for transposing. Over the years, after being sung by literally thousands of singers, these two tunes settled into two keys that are far enough apart that, between them, they cover most vocal ranges. Both of them are done in either F or C. Most vocalists can sing in either the one or the other. With intrumentalists, it's generally the F version that gets played.

    As for 'Nao me Toques' and 'Tico-tico,' it's a coin toss. Am or Dm. These two are probably worth learning in both keys, as they'll both come up in either in a variety of settings. It's only two tunes and we can all use the transposition practice anyway, right? 'Nao me Toques' was taking hold in Am until it turned up in 'Tocando com Jacob' in Dm. With so many players (rightly) accepting 'Tocando' as modern gospel, 'Nao me Toques' in Dm is becoming more common. And 'Tico-tico' is a sung tune, too, so it can go either way, although I'd venture to guess that Am is more common.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Doug Hoople; Dec-04-2010 at 5:19pm.
    Doug Hoople
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    Registered User Doug Hoople's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Correct" Keys for Choros

    Zz
    Last edited by Doug Hoople; Dec-04-2010 at 4:43pm. Reason: accidentally double-posted during entry
    Doug Hoople
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  5. #5
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Correct" Keys for Choros

    Thanks a ton for the explanation. I figured ot had to be somehting like that and I appreciate your recommendations.

    It must be late Where you are, Doug... or else you tried to type NZ. :-)
    Jim

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  6. #6
    Registered User Doug Hoople's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Correct" Keys for Choros

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Thanks a ton for the explanation. I figured ot had to be somehting like that and I appreciate your recommendations.

    It must be late Where you are, Doug... or else you tried to type NZ. :-)
    Neither, actually. I had a slip of the finger, and wound up with two versions of the above, one right after the other. You can't delete a whole post outright anymore, so I edited to delete all the text and it turns out there's a minimum of two characters for any post, thus the cryptic 'Zz'.

    It was mid-morning on a leisurely Sunday morning as I was writing the above, meaning mid-afternoon Saturday in New York. I was in the middle of my second cup of coffee, and so have no excuse whatsoever for my slip of the fingers.
    Doug Hoople
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  7. #7
    Registered User MandoNicity's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Correct" Keys for Choros

    Just want to add my thanks to Doug's extensive information also. I am a veritable neophyte to Choro but find it immensely fascinating and I'm eager to grab any info being offered, which Doug clearly does so well. Tip of the hat to you.


    JR

  8. #8
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Correct" Keys for Choros

    Yeah, these are certainly challenging tunes... made even more so by the multiple possibilities of different keys. I know this is a form of jazz and that happens also in that genre so I am not surprised but I just figured if there was a way to find a common ground. I plan on getting together with a local player so I guess I will just ask her what keys she plays what in and hope for the best in the future.
    Jim

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  9. #9
    Registered User Doug Hoople's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Correct" Keys for Choros

    It's really not so bad. That's only a half-dozen tunes that generally get played in two keys, out of, say, 30-50 commonly played choros. "Noites Cariocas,' for example, is always in G, as is 'Receita de Samba,' as is 'Bole Bole.' An awful lot of choros are in D minor, 'Vibracoes,' 'Cochichando,' 'Naquele Tempo,' 'Diabinho Maluco,' 'E Do que Ha,' etc., etc, and these all get played in just one key as well.

    Jazzers can generally expect to transpose a lot more often, especially when working out of the standard songbook with vocalists. Choroes generally have a much easier time in this category.
    Doug Hoople
    Adult-onset Instrumentalist (or was that addled-onset?)

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