What do I need to start?

[onestepahead]

Hi all! I've been lurking for a few weeks, since I found Mandolin Cafe. I've rread a lot of helpful information, as I'm new to the mandolin world. I've enjoyed bluegrass for some time, and acoustical instruments of all kinds for even longer. I think I inherited that from my grandpa. He could play a banjo like no other, and also was a wonder on the mandolin, fiddle and guitar too. My dad still has his banjo actually. Wish I knew what happened to the other instruments. Anyway, I've been in love with the mandolin for a while, and have saved up money, researched, bought books and am ready to buy my mandolin. After reading a lot of posts on here, I've decided on the Kentucky KM-505. Seems to get a lot of good reviews for a beginner mandolin, and I hope it'll last me long enough to get somewhat well-practiced, so that I can save up and have money for a better one down the road when the day comes.

I'm so glad I found Mandolin Cafe, and plan on sticking around. I know this is THE place to get info, and talk with some great mandolin players, and that's what I need. So, here are my beginner questions. Before I buy my mandolin, I want to know what else I need with it. I'm plan on buying from one of the sponsors on Mandolin Cafe, but before I order the mandolin, I have a few questions.

1. What accessories do I need to have?

2. I know picks are a given. Any that are good for starters?

3. What about a strap? For an A-style, what's the best kind?

4. Electric tuner? If so, what's a decently priced one (I'm a college student so I'm still on a bit of a budget, especially with Christmas coming up. I've got money saved, but can't go overboard.)

5. Is a tone-guard recommended? (I think that's what it's called)

6. And...oh yeah. Strings. Will the 505 do better with a different set of strings than what comes on it from the factory?

7. What about instrument cleaner? I saw some on one of the stores. How often do mandolins need to be cleaned?


I think that's it for now. Seems like I had one more, but I can't remember it if so. I've been browsing for a while, and I will continue to search the forums. There's so much information and knowledge on here, I've learned a lot just from reading the boards here.
So, thanks in advance for any help!

[Tim2723]

Hi and welcome!

Lots of good questions, and you'll receive tons of answers to each of them. All those subjects have been covered, but you're welcome to ask them all again, as we never get tired of answering! But do make use of the search feature, as the archives contain invaluable information collected from all the experts and beginners alike.

My take on things (and only my opinion, mind you):

1. You need few accessories to start, and it's better to spend precious cash on ink and paper (tutorial books) and plastic (CDs and tapes) than on fancy gizmos.

2. Picks are very personal, but many BG players prefer thicker ones. A romp through the music store's pick bin is worth it. Get a variety for a dollar or two and try them out.

3. Any decent guitar strap will work, although there are special mandolin straps. Many start out with little more than a long leather boot strap. Do use a strap though, as it aids in stability and proper positioning of the instrument.

4. There are a number of good electronic tuners. You don't have to spend a fortune. This is a good subject to use the search function for, as there is a lot to know, and info changes with new developments.

5. A Tone Guard is great, but not necessary to start out. Mandolins were played for generations without them. Don't put your money there to begin with, but consider it for the future.

6. D'Addario J-74 or J-75 strings are the most affordable, frequently recommended strings. Part of the fun is experimenting with strings, but in the beginning it's good to stick with the time-tested.

7. In the beginning you'll need nothing more than a soft cloth to wipe down the mandolin. Any of the good quality guitar cleaners available from music stores will work though. Just avoid anything containing silicone. That's a big no-no for any stringed instrument.

The subject you might have forgotten is set up. It's well worth the money to have your mandolin looked over by a good technician and adjusted for optimum playability. This is more important than all the accessories put together, and isn't something to skimp on.

Welcome again. Hang out here and have a blast!

[Jill McAuley]

1) As for accessories you've already mentioned the basic ones in your other questions - strap, picks, tuner. I wouldn't worry too much about a tone-gard if you're on a budget - lots of folks don't use one, myself included.

2) Picks are really a personal choice and dependent on what's comfortable to you playing wise. I'd say go to your local music shop/order a bunch online and try them out - Dunlop Ultex, Golden Gate, Pro-Plec etc. Generally you're going to be looking at gauges in the range of 1.mm/1.5mm/2.mm as thicker picks are used with the mandolin.

3) If you're on a tight budget you can just get some long leather boot laces and braid them into a strap - quite a few folks here have posted about doing just that. Otherwise you can get an affordable leather mandolin strap such as the ones in the links below:

http://www.themandolinstore.com/scri...idproduct=9200

http://www.themandolinstore.com/scri...idproduct=7799

4) Folks have been raving about the Snark tuners lately and I'm probably headed down to my local music shop to pick one up later today.

http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/SNARK-AIT.htm

5) As I mentioned already, at $75, I don't think a Tone Gard is necessarily a "must have" for someone starting out.

6) Where are you getting your 505 from? Your local music shop? Online dealer? One of the Cafe sponsers? If it's from Cafe sponsers like The Mandolin Store or Folk Musician.com then it'll be set up and good to go. D'Addario J74's are a good place to start string wise, and as you develop as a player then your tastes may alter in this regard, preferring heavier/flatwound etc - again, it's a personal thing.

7) Personally I wouldn't worry about instrument cleaner - get a decent cleaning cloth like the one below and you should be fine. I have one of these and it's nice and dust free, unlike some of the other microfiber cleaning cloths out there.

http://jazzmando.com/silkweave_cloth.shtml

Enjoy that KM505 - I've played a bunch of them because my local music shop is a Kentucky dealer and I think they are very nice mandolins for the money.

Cheers,
Jill

[onestepahead]

Tim and Jill, thank you! I do plan on buying from one of the stores on Mandolin Cafe. Probably Robert at Folkmusician, because I've read a lot of helpful information he's posted. But if not, then the Mandolin Store. If it weren't for their setup process I've heard so much about, I wouldn't buy online at all. I'll have to find where my nearest music store actually is. A guy I work with is a drummer as well as an acoustic guitar player at his church, so I'll check with him and see where he shops, then check them out.

I'll be sure to get a good cleaning cloth. Tim, you made a good point about the Tone Gard. I'll keep it in mind for future purchases maybe. Saving myself $75 right now is a good thing though.

I'll do some searches on the electric tuner, and see what comes up. I'll also be sure to get a variety of picks and see which I prefer.

One more question on the strings - since it'll already be set-up, should I play it as is for a while, or would it be better to change the strings to a better pair right away? My uneducated guess would be to play it a while, then change strings on down the road as needed. But if it's better to upgrade the strings, I'll gladly do it. I'll search specifically for more info on strings on here too. I need to get a notebook and take notes on this stuff.

Thanks again for your help!

[Tim2723]

I think your efforts and research have already put you well along the path of success. If you buy from one of the sponsors you're certain to get a good deal and a proper set up. While it might seem like more money in the beginning, it's really a bargain in the long run. Invest properly now and you'll save later.

As for strings, those are cheap anyway and are a consumable. Don't worry too much about that today. Better to get started right and go from there. At any rate, you'll have your hands full enough in the beginning and strings are to be worried about in a while. Lots of time for that.

For tuners, there's actually several on-line sites that give accurate mandolin tuning, and even applications for your cell phone that do the job. Not perfect of course, but cheap for a student starting out.

For a cleaning cloth, even a scrap of an old, soft T-shirt is fine. Jill points out a good one, but don't waste money on fancy things to start. Put your money where it counts. Even a dollar saved on a cloth can be put toward learning materials or other valuable things.

Applying the price of the Tone Guard toward a proper set up will get you MUCH further along the path of success.

You're right about a notebook. Use this forum and all its experts to your advantage. There is more accumulated knowledge here than anywhere in the world.

[Michael Richmond]

I started playing mandolin about 4 months ago and have found that I really only needed a few things:

A mandolin
I decided on a Kentucky KM-254. I wasn't certain that I'd stick with a stringed instrument so this seemed like a decent level to enter at. Your choice of a KM-505 will certainly give you some room to grow as a player.

Picks
I ordered some Wegen 1.2mm picks with my mandolin order and picked up various cheap ~50 cent picks from local stores. My pick tastes have changed over the past few months. I found that the Dunlop Jazztone 207 was an easy pick initially to get reasonable tone and develop my feeling for where the strings are. I still use the 207 from time to time but I now find that I like thinner picks like my Wegen 1.2mm and the Dunlop Ultex picks. I'd suggest picking up a handful of picks from a local music store a good initial variety for around $5 might be: a golden gate, a Dawg, a 207, a Dunlop Ultex, a D'Andrea Pro-plec. That would give you a few guitar-like picks and a few more rounded mandolin-style picks. Different players typically lean to one or the other of these shapes.

Tuner
A decent electronic tuner can be had for under $20. I use the TuneTech IMT-500 clip-on chromatic tuner and have been pleased with it. Although the many recent posts about the new Snark SN2 tuner would put that tuner on the top of my list since it can be had for about the same price.

Cleaning Cloth
I purchased a cheap cloth with my mandolin, but really, an old clean and soft t-shirt (without anything printed on it) would do for wiping down the strings and body after playing. Things like cleaning polish and/or fret-board oil can wait until you first change your strings which could be a couple of months after starting to play.

Strap
Some folks suggest that getting a strap early on helps the beginner player stabilize the mandolin. I haven't purchased a strap and can confirm that for a while I felt like I was struggling to move my left hand to fret a string without feeling like the mandolin was going to fall. But with practice* I can now play without worrying about the mandolin is going to fall.

Books/Lessons
Beyond an instrument and a tuner, these are going to do the most to improve your playing. I'm fortunate to have a local music store (Gryphon Strings) where I take mandolin lessons. At the very least you need a "teach yourself mandolin book" if you are not planning on taking lessons. I've found that also having some basic mandolin songbooks has been useful to break up the tunes set for my lessons. Some basic mandolin books are: "Easy Songs for Mandolin" and the "Just for Fun" series such as "Just for Fun: Easy Rock Mandolin", "Just for Fun: Classic Rock Mandolin".

Arm-rest*
I purchased a McClung armrest a couple of months after starting to play. I found that the arm-rest has helped me stabilize the mandolin and helped keep my arm in a natural position without planting a finger or resting on the bridge. The arm-rest also seemed to open up the tone of my mandolin, I think this was because I am no longer muffling the body as much. Personally, I'd suggest an arm-rest sooner than a ToneGuard from my research. Doug Edwards makes the McClung (NFI) and was happy to make up an armrest to match my mandolin based on some pictures I pointed him to on the web. Doug offers MandolinCafe readers a discount on his armrests which I forgot to mention when I ordered my armrest.

Gel-filled stress ball
I've been using a gel-filled stress ball ~$4 that I had lying around to help develop strength in my left hand. These can be purchased from an office-supply or electronics store and are intended to help avoid RSI and carpal-tunnel syndrome. 10 minutes or so a day squeezing this ball during my commute has dramatically helped get my left hand strong enough to be comfortable fretting my mandolin strings.

If I were advising a friend on what was needed to start learning mandolin I'd focus simply on: mandolin, a tuner, some picks, and maybe a stress ball.

[Gelsenbury]

Books/Lessons
Beyond an instrument and a tuner, these are going to do the most to improve your playing. I'm fortunate to have a local music store (Gryphon Strings) where I take mandolin lessons. At the very least you need a "teach yourself mandolin book" if you are not planning on taking lessons.

I'd add to this that it's a good idea to work from several books. I haven't managed to find a book that covers everything; there are omissions, differences in opinion, and so on. To compare several writers' advice can be helpful for you in deciding what works well for you.

[Markus]

Holy cow ... I'm wordy today.

While I might write like I know everything, that's just a few years writing documentation. I'm no expert, I just play one on the internet.

1. What accessories do I need to have?

A mandolin, a few picks of various weights/types [do not too get hung up about], and a tuner.

The one thing not mentioned here, that may be appropriate, is humidification.

If your instrument is generally kept in the case, then a simple in-case humidifier will do the trick just fine and you don't need to get elaborate.

If you live where it's very humid, or where your house is heated during the cold winter - you will need a method of keeping the instrument in a proper humidity range to avoid damage. My furnace has a humidifier system built in which keeps our house humidity fine in winter ... but a lot of folks don't, and the first few years of your instrument's life it's a bit more sensitive to such issues.

If you want to have your instrument hanging out on a stand 24/7 [I sure prefer that] ... then you will need to be concerned about this. Also, if your instrument is changing environmental conditions [goes outside regularly in winter in case] I'd pay additional attention to it.

It's really not a huge hassle, big cost, or something you need to worry too much about - provided you're aware it's a concern and keep the little humidifier full during dry times of the year/winter.

----

Obviously books and instructional materials are useful - though lessons at various points along your learning I cannot recommend highly enough. I didn't take lessons with guitar ... well, let's just say I rarely pick it up even though I played for 15 years before picking up a mandolin.

Lessons early on are useful, very useful. Bad habits are a pain to unlearn.

2. I know picks are a given. Any that are good for starters?

Most folks go with thicknesses in the 1.0 mm + range, 1.5-ish being fairly common. That said - a variety like mentioned above is good as when you're first just getting going it's not worth worrying much about in my opinion.

Yes, they make a big difference on sound, and some are much easier [individual dependent] for some than others. Sizes and shapes vary, I would focus mainly on getting a shape that fits you well, a weight that's acceptable sounding and playing for you ... and working on technique and learning before spending too much or going overboard.

I always tack on a couple picks of various types [or the kinds I now use most] every time I order some books or strings or such ... doesn't take long to build a collection.

3. What about a strap? For an A-style, what's the best kind?

I have a simple leather strap like mentioned above. One end goes over the post at the bottom of the mandolin, the other end has a loop which goes through the headstock.

Doesn't need to be fancy.

I use a strap even when sitting, for me it keeps the mandolin in the exact right spot for good technique/ergonomics and as I like to play hours daily. Plus it keeps me from having to support the mandolin in my left hand, allowing me to focus on good form instead.

4. Electric tuner? If so, what's a decently priced one (I'm a college student so I'm still on a bit of a budget, especially with Christmas coming up. I've got money saved, but can't go overboard.)

There's a lot of cheap clip-ons that work well. I have an Intelli that's perfectly functional, though those Snark ones with color are tempting.

I also have a Strobo-Clip, which is a sweet [and expensive tuner]. It's great for use recording, where I want `super exact'. Outside of recording, I just use my Intelli and ear.

5. Is a tone-guard recommended? (I think that's what it's called)

Lots of people don't use them. While I'm intrigued, it's going to be a long while before that really matters - and as far as I see it, is only needed when you'd be playing in large groups/performing.

The instant I'm in a band again, I'll probably get one. Until then, I don't need to annoy my family more while practicing.

6. And...oh yeah. Strings. Will the 505 do better with a different set of strings than what comes on it from the factory?

When you order stuff, perhaps order a couple sets of D'Addario J74's or perhaps J73's [a little thinner, thus perhaps easier on your fingers at first].

I'd see how they are from your vendor, but would expect they'd have some life in them before you have to change. I play every day for a couple of hours daily, seem to have semi-corrosive hands, and change strings monthly - I'd say I change them more than a lot of people, though know a few who change them more often [most who perform weekly].

Make sure your hands are clean and dry before playing, wipe the strings down after, and your sets should last you a few months unless you're playing many hours daily.

7. What about instrument cleaner? I saw some on one of the stores. How often do mandolins need to be cleaned?

I use a cleaner product on my instruments maybe once a year. In my opinion these are products you buy because you feel like you should use, not because conditions really ever call for them.

For the most part I wipe down my mando after playing [strings, neck, where I've rubbed]. Every now and then I'll take a slightly damp soft cloth and wipe it off, then dry it. When I change strings I'll wipe the headstock and down the fretboard as well with a barely damp cloth. Dust the hard to reach areas with a soft paintbrush.

After a few years, I've found the fretboard [esp if rosewood] starts to dry out a lot and using a proper product in very minimal amounts will take care of it for quite a long while. As for which products I would do your research first, don't believe music store/site. I have a bottle of stuff that I got a decade ago and will last my lifetime.

Maybe I've got dirty instruments, but my 13 year old guitar sure looks and plays great though with little more than wipedowns, barely damp wipedowns, and a couple hits of fretboard stuff every few winters.

[Michael Richmond]

Make sure your hands are clean and dry before playing

I agree with the make sure your hands are clean and dry before playing. But I'd add that you don't want to play if your fingertips are soft from being submerged in water for a while.

[onestepahead]

You people are...in short...amazing. Thank you. Tim, Jill, mrichmond, Gelsenbury, and Markus. I will be getting a notebook to write this stuff down, as well as other info I've found on here. I have bought a couple beginner mandolin books, and plan on adding to that list, as I've already seen just by looking at the two I have now that one leaves out info the other includes, and that one leaves out info the other includes. I think a few more would definitely help cover more of the basics, and I like the idea of having songbooks to play out of, for even more practice.

I'll get some strings soon. My coworker I mentioned says he knows a really good mandolin player he goes to church with who's also in his band. He's going to see if he'll give me some lessons. If not, I'll check at the music stores and see what they offer. I'm going to try to find a day off that I can find any music stores around, see what they offer in the way of lessons, as well as picks, strings, etc. for future needs.

And thanks for the tip on a humidifier. I'll definitely look into that because the house is heated during the winter, and humid during the summer. North Carolina = sticky summers.

Thank you all so much for your advice and help. I'll definitely be hanging around, and as I progress, hopefully I can post more than just questions. That's a work in the making though. Thank you again everyone. You're wonderful.

[JEStanek]

All I'll add is Welcome to the Cafe! Everything else is well covered.

Jamie

[nickster60]

I have to agree it is like a encyclopedia for beginning mandolin great job fellow members. Robert at folk musician is a great guy and does a really nice setup.

[onestepahead]

Thank you Jamie (love the avatar pic!), and nickster! I've found so much information on here, it's amazing. I'm going to start printing stuff out, and just put it in a folder for reference later on. Thanks again!

[JeffD]

Welcome to the cafe. I have often been amazed by how quickly an thoroughly one can get answers here.

There is an accessory not mentioned - and that is: other people to play with. If you are heading in bluegrass direction, find a local jam an attend regularly. Even if you just listen at first, you will find guidence, motivation and inspiration unmeasurable, and meet friends you will have for the rest of your life.

Don't worry about not feeling ready for that. If I can generalize from my own exprience, you never will feel ready.

[Markus]

Jeff has good advice there, I've found bluegrass jams very encouraging and that the challenges faced there helped me develop as a player quickly. You can easily stand in the back corner and play nearly silently, just enjoy playing as part of the group.

You never feel ready, but once you've found a couple chords I'd consider finding a jam. You might have to sit out songs as you pick up chords ... but I find the goal [learn x song by Monday's jam], the encouragement from other better players, and the practical experience of playing in a group and playing continuously for an hour+ to be useful at every stage of my mando and guitar playing.

[onestepahead]

That is a good idea, thanks! I'll check around, see what's going on in my area once I get my mandolin. I love watching it played anyway, and have been pouring over YouTube and the videos on here, for that purpose.

[CES]

Hey, man...welcome to the cafe, from a fellow North Carolinian...

Tuner-wise, the clip ons are great, and I'm actually going to be ordering either an Intellitouch or one of the Snark ones mentioned above soon, but have made it a lot of years now with simply a Korg chromatic tuner. They're best with electric or A/E instruments that you can plug in, but they work just fine for acoustics provided you're in a relatively quiet environment. In jams they pick up too much noise to be accurate (which is why the clip-ons are in vogue) but are fine for home use...usually found for about 20 bucks.

All of the other info above is excellent, but all you really need is the mandolin and some picks! Don't overthink things at this point!! Everything else helps, but don't worry so much about all the accessories that you forget to PLAY!!

[bgjunkie]

I don't know if this was mentioned, but if you are planning to buy from Folkmusician or The Mandolin Store, give them a call and see if they can go ahead and put a good set of strings on it when they do their setup. That way when you get it it will be ready to go.

Just a thought.
And a suggestion for picks is the Dunlop Ultex 1.14 (great picks and they won't cost you an arm and a leg).

[nutcase]

Arm-rest*
I purchased a McClung armrest a couple of months after starting to play. I found that the arm-rest has helped me stabilize the mandolin and helped keep my arm in a natural position without planting a finger or resting on the bridge. The arm-rest also seemed to open up the tone of my mandolin, I think this was because I am no longer muffling the body as much. Personally, I'd suggest an arm-rest sooner than a ToneGuard from my research. Doug Edwards makes the McClung (NFI) and was happy to make up an armrest to match my mandolin based on some pictures I pointed him to on the web. Doug offers MandolinCafe readers a discount on his armrests which I forgot to mention when I ordered my armrest.

Excuse me while I highjack this thread for a moment, but I've searched around and I can't really figure out how these armrests are attached. Is it just a threaded bolt and nut kind of apparatus that just squeezes onto the mandolin or is there actual penetration involved in attaching it?

[Michael Richmond]

Is it just a threaded bolt and nut kind of apparatus that just squeezes onto the mandolin or is there actual penetration involved in attaching it?

Yes, it is just a threaded pair of bolts with a kind of nut in the middle with no penetration of the mandolin. It's difficult to explain but here is an attempt:

If you look at the images on this page (NFI): http://hillcountrystringworks.com/armrest5.html , the smooth barrel part with holes that is the thickest part of the metal is threaded internally at both ends. There is a bent U shaped piece of metal with a cork surface that sits at the rear of the mandolin with the two tips of the U being threaded. The two pieces of metal wrapping from the wood of the armrest are also threaded. The underside of the wood is lined with either cork or leather to protect the mandolin finish.

To fit the armrest, you rotate the barrels to open up the gap, slip the assembly over the mandolin and then carefully use a thin metal pin in a little handle to tighten the barrels until it clamps onto the mandolin. While doing this you need to be careful to ensure that the metal pin used to tighten the barrel does not contact the mandolin and scratch the finish.

The metal parts of these armrests are identical in function to how a violin chin-rest is held onto the violin, just slightly larger to handle the deeper body of a mandolin. When I fitted my armrest I removed it and repositioned it a couple of times in the first week without any visible damage to the instrument.

[onestepahead]

I love the cafe already. Everyone's so helpful and so nice. It's like walking into a room full of my friends I haven't seen in forever.

Anyway, CES, thanks! And hi to a fellow North Carolinian! (I'm actually not a man, though. Lady player here. Well, soon to be anyway.) Thanks for the welcome, and the info! I'm definitely going to pick up a tuner, and I'll probably go with the clip-on, from all I've read on different threads on here. I will get a handful of picks, and start out with those. By this point, I'm just ready to get started already, it's killing me. lol But I've survived for several months, so it's good to teach me patience.

bgjunkie, thanks for the tip! I'm in touch with Robert at Folkmusician. He replied to my email today actually. When I order my mandolin, I'll also ask him about changing the strings for me and just pay for it all at one time. I was wondering if they could do that kind of thing. Thank you also for the pick suggestion!