Beginner Chord Help - A and D

[RBMB]

I'm trying to learn mandolin and have found that various books recommend playing 2nd fret position A and D chords with different fingering. Some recommend playing them with index, ring and pinky, while others recommend using index, middle and ring. For example, on an A chord one book recommends 3rd and 4th strings - index finger, 2nd string ring and 1st string (E string) pinky, whereas another book recommends 2nd string middle and 1st string ring. I can play either one easily. The question I pose is which will serve me better in the long run and why? Which fingering do you use? Thanks, Mark

[AlanN]

Having trouble visualizing your A chord form(s). Some of the various shapes I get are:

2-2-0-0 (press the second fret A and D strings with index finger pad)
6-2-0-0 (ring, index)
2-2-4-5 (index barre, ring, pinky)
6-7-7-9 (index, middle barre, pinky)
9-7-4-5 (pinky, ring, index, middle)

[ChrisStewart]

My vote is: C. all of the above

Learn all the ways you can play every chord.

[JeffD]

All else being equal I use my pinky and ring fingers as much as I can, just to keep them from being lazy.

[EdHanrahan]

A big problem with beginner books, speaking from both mando and guitar experience, is that they work hard to show chords that use open strings and/or that are in "1st position", even if those chords are awkward, don't sound real great, and are rarely used by experienced players. I guess they don't want to intimidate folks by showing stuff "up the neck".

Compounding that, and your basic point of confusion ('cause it was mine!), is that the compressed scale of the mandolin has so many chord-tone options, & chord shapes, so readily available that it seems overwhelming at first, especially compared to guitar. Hey, let's add 2-2-4-0 to that list!

So yes, the correct answer is C: All of the above. But don't panic - they'll all come in time. For starters, I'd play whatever is easiest, or is easiest to move into, for now.

That said, one of the easier and more useful A's, for me, isn't any of the above: 6-7-0-0. Especially cool because it allows an easy run down to A7 at 6-5-0-0.

Do look into the FFcP (Four Finger Closed Position) exercises at Jazzmando.com, to whip your pinky into shape. You'll be glad you did.

Hope this helps!

[Ed Goist]

Having trouble visualizing your A chord form(s). Some of the various shapes I get are:
...snip...
2-2-4-5 (index barre, ring, pinky)
...snip...

...snip...
...one of the easier and more useful A's, for me, isn't any of the above: 6-7-0-0. Especially cool because it allows an easy run down to A7 at 6-5-0-0.

I agree that it's important to learn as many chord forms as possible, as well as to work on visualizing the fretboard as an array of notes! With that in mind, I'll again reference this chord chart site which I just love! Knowing many ways to form chords (and the theory behind doing so) is really helpful when you think about where your coming from, or where you're going to in the tune. I've recently started to work on this.

For example, the 2-2-4-5 A major mentioned by Alan is very useful if you're coming from, or going to, D major, since you can form that chord as 2-4-5-2. All you need to do is move the ring & pinky fingers over a course and there you are!

Likewise, the 6-7-0-0 A major mentioned by Ed is really handy not only when one is going to/from A7, but also to/from E major, as that can be made with 4-6-7-X. [See, if we form the 6-7-0-0 with the middle & ring, all we need to do is drop down a course, and drop the index on G-string 4th fret (b note) and there's the E major].

Finally, to reinforce the power of four finger chords (even though they can be a Royal Pain to learn and form correctly - I'm going through this NOW! ) remember that they can be moved all up and down the neck to make different chords – this makes them extremely useful and flexible.

[mandroid]

I use the index barre a lot .. movable chords 2245, 2455, 4224, A,D & E , name changes when moved but form stays the same..

.. 2455 is a pinky barre at 5th fret.

[Ed Goist]

Mandroid, how on earth do you make the 4224 Emaj with an index barre on 2?! I have tried & tried to do this, but just can't get any of the three remaining fingers to cleanly fret the G# and the B notes at the same time. Which fingers do you use, and on which notes? Thanks.

[EdSherry]

Ed -- I don't know how mandroid does it, but I play 4224 with an MIIR fingering, with the I finger a bar on the 2nd fret. my middle finger on the low B on the G string, and my ring finger on the high G# on the E string.

[albeham]

OK cool..Now Let me ask..What am I missing with the numbers.. I am so lost here..

4224 ?? someone help me out.... Thank you

[Ed Goist]

OK cool..Now Let me ask..What am I missing with the numbers.. I am so lost here..

4224 ?? someone help me out.... Thank you

Hi Albeham: mandolin chords configurations are often listed by a series of four numbers. These numbers indicate which fret is played on each string course, low to high.

Hence 4224 (or as some folks would list it 4-2-2-4) is:
* 4th fret of the G course (B note - the 5th harmony of E)
* 2nd fret of the D course (E note - the root for the E major chord)
* 2nd fret of the A course (another B)
* 4th fret of the E course (G# note - the 3rd harmony of E)

Finally, in this way of showing chord configurations 0 = an open string (D major = 2-0-0-2), while X means a string is not played (F major = 2-3-3-X).

Make sense?

[Ed Goist]

Ed -- I don't know how mandroid does it, but I play 4224 with an MIIR fingering, with the I finger a bar on the 2nd fret. my middle finger on the low B on the G string, and my ring finger on the high G# on the E string.

Ed; thanks very much for the reply. Interestingly, I decided to work on this shape tonight while practicing, and after about an hour of left hand manipulations I finally found a fairly doable way for forming this chord cleanly.

By moving my left hand a little more forward (toward the body of the mandolin) at the knuckles, and by slanting the tip of my index barre ever so slightly toward the headstock, I can effectively finger the low B with my ring finger, and the high G# with a fairly curled middle finger...The opposite of how you do it?!

I'm looking forward to working more on this this week, as well as going to and from both A=2-2-4-5 and D=2-4-5-2.

Interestingly, your way of forming this chord is also what Greg Horne recommends in his book, but I have not been able to cleanly form this configuration...How on earth do you get your ring finger on the high G# with your middle finger reaching over to the low B?...Isn't the middle finger in the way of the target fret for your ring finger?

Anyways, interesting stuff...I hope I'm not developing a bad habit by forming it as outlined above...After about 30 minutes I was making this E major more consistently cleanly than the hated 1-2-2-4...Due to the string tension on the mandolin, I find barring at the first fret MUCH harder than I'm used to on the guitar!

[lazydog]

Wow great info thanks guys.

[EdSherry]

Ed -- After 40+ years of playing, I find it easier to bring my middle finger over the top of the ring finger rather than the other way around. For me to try to finger 4224 as RIIM (rather than MIIR) means that I'm trying to tuck my middle finger "under" my ring finger in order play both at the 4th fret. May work for you, but I find it awkward. But YMMV.

I agree that barring on the mandolin is a different kettle of fish than barring on a guitar. It's a combination of the double courses, the string tension, and the fact that the neck is so much narrower that the standard "guitaristic" technique of dropping your wrist and putting your thumb on the back of the neck in order to play barre chords is more awkward (at least for me) on the mando.

And yes, I'm not a big fan of the 1224 E chord. I'm much more prone to play 1220 or 4224 or the "chop D" 9674.

[AlanN]

I don't *hate* any chord...after all, what has that chord done to you, anyway?

It all depends on the thing you are trying to do. E major 1-2-2-4 works well for certain things, and it happens to have the lowest tones on there, sometimes worthwhile. I often use 4-6-7-4 with all 4 fingers, puts my hand in good scalar position. 9-6-7-4 gets much play, too.

I love 'em all, use 'em wisely.

[albeham]

Ed Goist

Your the man. Thanks yes this helped a lot..

AL

[Ed Goist]

Thanks to all for the great comments and advice on this thread! Over the past few days I been working a lot on the barre chords mentioned here: A = 2-2-4-5, D = 2-4-5-2(X) [using 2-4-5-X on the E string when I've got a weak barre], and E = 4-2-2-4.

Of course, when we're playing these chords in a tune, we are probably also playing G major.

What G major do you typically play with this group of other chords?

I've tried several and either my switch is too slow for tunes requiring a rapid chord change (like the 2 beat duration chords in many uptempo fiddle tunes), or the pitch of the G chord just doesn't sound right with the other chords.

I'm curious to hear which G major voicing is recommended for use with these other barre chords by more experienced players. Thanks.

[EdSherry]

I use 0-0-2-3 or 7-5-2-3 for G major for songs in A (so the G chord is the flatted seventh chord). The former has open strings that sound different than your barred chords, so the latter might fit better sonically.

[Ed Goist]

Thanks Ed...0-0-2-3 sounds the best so far...and I'm not good enough (yet?) to go from the A-D-E barres to 7-5-2-3 in time to make a quick, short change.
Thanks again!

[Jon Hall]

There are several variations of G that leave out one of the notes; either the root G, third B or fifth D. This isn't a problem if you are playing with other instruments because someone else will be playing the notes you are leaving out.

0-5-2-3
0-0-5-3
0-0-10-10
4-5-2-x
4-5-5-x
7-5-5-x
x-5-5-7
7-9-10-x
x-9-10-7

[ChrisStewart]

I usually just leave off the seven in the 7523 G often early on I used the xx23. With practice I am getting better at covering the seven but it is a pretty good stretch. In the key of G x523 -C 523x -D 745x works well.

Also more lately I use G 791010 -C 5578 -D 77910

[albeham]

Where can I find these in a PDF file?

AL

[Lou Giordano]

I found this to be a great help. Let me know what you think.

http://4stringchords.com/

You can choose simple or more complicated cords.