Any ideas on a good movable 3 note maj7 shape?

[Baron Collins-Hill]

As far as I can tell, the kind of Maj7 chord shape I am looking for does not exist, but I figured i would pester you fine folks about it nonetheless.

I love the sound and finger placement of the dom7 shape that, take D7 for example, looks like 5th fret G string, 4th D string, 5th A string.

Similarly, I love the sound and placement of the min7 shape that, for Dmin7,looks like 5-3-5 on G D and A.

Likewise, I like the dom7 shape that for G7 looks like 4-3-5 on G D and A.

However, I cant find a good sounding maj7 shape to my liking.

if, for example, i raise the F in the G7 above to F#, I get a B minor triad sound, and the same with dropping the C of the D7 above to a B.

I know the Maj7 shape that looks like 2-2-4-4 for Amaj7, and it sounds ok to drop the root, but I am grasping for something a little more fitting. I cant seem to get the sound I want.

This may be a problem of voice leading and guide tones, which i definitely need to work on. What is a good way to get from a dom7 or min7 to a maj7 on a mando without getting some inversion that sounds wrong.

Or maybe its my ears.

Or maybe my mind, and you are all wondering what i am blathering on about and that the options i think don't sound quite right are actually perfectly fine.

It just seems like with fifths tuning there arent that many options for maj7s without getting funny inversions or off sounding intervals (minor 2nds and major 7ths).

Sorry for the long post,

Thanks,
Baron

[Roland Sturm]

Mmh, maybe I'm just imagining that it sounds good to others..., but I like going from the D7 (545) you describe to Gj7 (445). No root here, but sounds good (and if you need a root, that's what bass players are for).
Similarly, going from G7 as you describe (435) to Cj7 (522), no fifth. (423 doesn't sound good to me).

But generally, I like the chord voicings available on guitars (or even ukuleles) better, tuning in 5th may be too far apart for that. I also find it much easier to develop a good sounding chord solo on a guitar or ukulele because the narrower intervals between strings (especially with a high bottom string on a uke) gives more choices.

[David Miller]

I have also been doing a lot of work recently on 3 note chord shapes, so for what it is worth, my approach is as follows:

In a Maj7 chord, the two most important notes are the 3rd and the 7th. When I plot those out on the fretboard, they fall in one of two positions relative to each other - either 1 string and two frets apart (such as X42X = X 7th 3rd X), or adjacent string / fret (X44X = X 3rd 7th X).

After that, it is a matter of deciding which of the remaining two chord voices to include, the root or the 5th, and whether they are above the 3rd / 7th pair or below. If there is no bass instrument present, then including the root is more important. This leads to either a shape such as BbMaj7 = 375X (root on bottom), or X855 (root on bottom), or X756 (root on top).

If there is a voice present that can supply the root note, then the fifth becomes available as the third note, leading to BbMaj7 = 10 7 5 X (5th on bottom), or 355X (5th on bottom), or 778X (5th on top), or X751 (5th on top).

As far as how I pick which version to use, I will try to locate the 3rd / 7th pair so that it falls into the same area on the fretboard where the previous chord is located, see where the open string is in relation to that pair, and then plug in the third note on that string. The root-less versions will always end up sounding minor since, well, the top of a Maj 7th chord is a minor triad (but it is always satisfying to hear how the addition of the bass instrument to these changes the whole character of the chord), and the rooted versions will always have some of that "crunchiness" ( the "off sounding" intervals you refer to) due to the presence of the Maj7th interval, but hey, isn't that the point of using that particular sonority?

One last thing I have found, at least for my own ears, is that I tend to keep my three note chords on the bottom three strings of the instrument. This is partly so that I can keep the top string open for a melody line, and also just because I generally find I like the sound a bit better.

I dont know if this answers the original question, but within most songs I have worked through, I find that at least one of these 7 Major 7th chord shapes gives me the sound and fingering that I am looking for.

[Baron Collins-Hill]

Thanks for the replys, they definitely give me some stuff to think about. I too usually keep the 3 note chords to the bottom three strings. Hopefuly I will get a Five string soon and that should be a blast to get some of these shapes mapped onto.

Some great options and ideas I hadnt thought about from both of you, thanks.

Baron

[Bruce Clausen]

Lots of good ideas here. I usually have a bass player or guitar playing along, so if I want a 3-note major seventh I'm thinking like David, leave out either the root or the fifth, depending on which voicing will give a smooth progression. Sounds like you're playing solo and looking for voicings that are unambiguous, Baron. So for example Bbmaj7 played 375x, C maj7 played 522x, Fmaj7 played 237x. These all have the root, third and seventh, and with the root BELOW the seventh, which everyone seems to prefer.

By the way, in comping you'll often play more than one voicing for each chord in a tune. So for example a bar of Gmaj7 could be played as 445x then 455x or the reverse. Or for two bars try 475x then 455x then 445x then 425x. So you get a moving middle part with some passing notes. You could think of this as Gmaj9, G6, Gmaj7, G6 with a few notes dropped. This gives a way of adding some extensions while implying clearly what the root is.

[Ted Eschliman]

Context is everything, and Bruce jumped right on to what I was going to say about setting up the tonality through the notes surrounding this chord. It can be through the "passing tones" as he suggested, or voicing the same chord differently before the change. The idea being, we can't limit our aural assessment of the chord fingerings to just a quick dissection. The ear of the listener (and player) is set up for the tonality by everything else that surrounds the chord in the moment (bass, other comping instruments) or through time (a prior dominant, or dominant prep chord in a phrase).

Don Stiernberg is a master at this; when you extract his chords, they can sound funny, stark, ambiguous by themselves, but in the context of a song, they work magnificently.(Steal as much from him as you can; I hope he has time to weigh in on this thread.)

The best answer is to seek as many variations of the Maj7 as you can. It will be like splattering mud on the wall--get enough mud sprayed, and it will stick. I've been working with a 10-string (and 5-string electric) a lot the last few months, and I'm not sure the extra course really changes things all that much. I'm still thinking mostly three note chords and and occasional four. The extra course does give you more range to set up tonalities over time, however.

[John Hill]

As Ted said, context is key (no pun intended). Depending on where you're moving from and going to, the notes you choose to play will have a big impact on the sound.

Per your question though I like using the 3rd inversion of a maj7 omitting the 3rd since we're only using 3 strings, so that's: 5th-1st-7th of the chord. Or you could omit the 5th and go for: 1st-7th-3rd voicing.

But look at the chords that come before & after to find a transition that you like best.

[40bpm]

Excellent thread. I agree with all of the above - it's all about the transitions. Here are my 2 tricks:

1) Play the minor chord based on the third (e.g. instead of Cmaj7, play an Em). This gives you a rootless Cmaj7. Sometimes just letting go of the root or 5th will get you a great voicing.

2) Play the plain old 3 note major chord. No dissonance and it can work really well. Again, it's the transition that matters.

Thanks for starting this thread and thanks to all the contributors.

Jan

[mandroid]

Maj 7th indicates a 2 half step interval to the next note, the tonic.. m7th is a half step ,
melodic scale really wants to resolve to the tonic.
Maj 3rd and that note , are what gives it the color .
add the one or the 5 .. or not...

[Pete Martin]

When I listen to piano players, I hear Jazz major chords include not only the Maj 7, but 6 (13) and sometimes #11 (b5). Keeping that in mind, here are some major type Jazz voicings I like to use.

For a G Major Jazz chord:

G D A strings:

420
242
244 (#11)
445
11 9 7
799

D A E strings:
253
425
457
797
799 (#11)
9 9 10


I like to take all possible chord notes (for Jazz major chords 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, #11, 13) and map them out on the fingerboard. Then try various combinations and see what I like the sound of. I describe how to do this in my .pdf book “Jazz Chording for Mandolin” which you can look at no charge at my web site.

Best of luck.

[John Soper]

Pete:

I agree with you that my goal when playing jazz/swing for finding fingerings when the chart calls for a Maj 7 is to play chords that "sound like a major chord". I especially like the Maj 7-->6 movement, rather than just sitting on a Maj 7. A frequent fingering in G (GDA strings): (Maj 7) 445 --> (G6) 425 alternating every 2 beats. Can add the 9 (A) - 5th fret on E string- if you feel the need for a four note cluster, but usually 3 notes conveys your intent- and easier to think about on the fly. Can even carry that descending line down to a 405 fingering if it fits the song...

It's all fun.

[Chip Booth]

This topic title has been on my mind all day so I finally grabbed a mandolin to see what I like. I find that I like a rootless voicing best. That way there is no half step to clash. For example: Dmaj7 = 244

I will also say that the mandolin voicings tend to be all about context and often what sounds odd by itself works wonderfully in a group setting.

Did I just repeat everything from the posts above? I'll go read the thread now...

[Pete Martin]

If you're near a piano, play the root with the sustain pedal in the bass range and play the chord voicings with it. Really helps to hear rootless voicings.

[Jon Hall]

There is one 2 fingered Amaj7 that I can think of but it sounds funky to me.

6 (C#) - 6 (G#) -0 (A) - 0 (E)

[John Soper]

Jon: you don't want your voicings with the dissonance of the half-step between the maj7 and the root- You're right that it sounds funky - spread them out, or delete the root altogether: 2-2-4-4 (root on the bottom) or 6-6-7-x (rootless) work much better.

[Doug Hoople]

Jon: you don't want your voicings with the dissonance of the half-step between the maj7 and the root- You're right that it sounds funky - spread them out, or delete the root altogether: 2-2-4-4 (root on the bottom) or 6-6-7-x (rootless) work much better.

Sometimes, the dissonance works, especially if it passes quickly. I love the sound of dissonances like these that are, technically, consonant within the chord structure. In the right setting, they can sound fantastic.

[Bruce Clausen]

I agree. We hear this kind of voicing all the time on piano. The arranging books tell us not to voice a major seventh chord with the seventh BELOW the root unless it's a semitone below (not a ninth), and there are other parts above and below. On mandolin 6600 for Amaj7 is a perfect example of this, but there won't be many others. On guitar you can play xx2413 for Cmaj7, x5400x for G maj7, xx0632 for D maj7, etc.

For example, try comping the beginning of 'Triste' with 6600 (Amaj7) to 2320 (Fmaj7+11).