Anyone Know About the Luthier Built Project?

[Lefty Luthier]

Has any member of the Cafe investigated the new Luthier Built program on Linkedin? Just curious about the whole enchalada. Would like everyone's opinion.

[sunburst]

I'd never heard of it so I googled it and read what I found.
My first impression is; it's sort of redundant. With search engines of all kinds at the fingertips of computer users, It seems to me that everything he says it will do only takes a few seconds now.

[Paul Hostetter]

I have to agree. I got tackled simultaneously by about six different people, luthierbuilt being but one of them, with separate agendas on LinkedIn. In a moment of weakness, I signed up, but the more I look there, the more it seems to be just another Facebook wannabe, another social networking site duplicating what others have already done. How many instrument-making sites do we have time for? How many hours are there in a day?

[...and Master of None]

I'm really unimpressed with linkedIn. It's kind of a laughing stock in my industry, at least. I go look at the linkedIn profiles whenever I want a good laugh. Several people I work with, folks who are basically not much more than data-entry operators and secretaries, have profiles that imply that they're in middle management.

Just sayin...

[Michael Lewis]

That reminds me of the cartoon with 2 dogs and a computer and one dog says to the other, "On the internet no one knows you're a dog'.

[Paul Hostetter]

The New Yorker to the rescue:

[onlineluthier]

Hi -I'm new to the Forum but I also was invited to join by Bill Newby Luthier Built on "Linkedin" and lasted about 5 minutes in his group before he revoked me... I made the mistake of commenting that I as a luthier would not pay his proposed $250.00 annual membership.. I was agreeing with another poster and he kicked me off... probably other guy also. Anyway.. his business model will be interesting to watch.. his vaporware website is a solution in search of a problem in my opinion.. but what do I know- I was revoked for expressing my opinion. Apparently he doesn't value honesty but only wants people who think his website idea is great.. its obvious he is casting his net to ensnare as many luthiers as possible to charge them for his website and he hopes to bring business by having musicians contact us. He is going to charge musicians $25.00 for a basic membership... as one of you pointed out.. the web is free.. I myself have a website and run a forum for luthiers (mainly students that have graduated from the two Luthier schools here in Atlanta but others are welcome). In essence he is setting up a social networking site with no advertisers so his business model probably needs the membership fees to offset the software costs... my theory anyway. I wish him luck but he will do it without me.

[BobNewby]

SOME MYTHS

Myth 1 -- "it's sort of redundant."

Reality -- Here is a representative personal comment to me, in this case from a classical guitar professional in Spain:

- "it is clearly going to be a very successful enterprise, and is in many ways quite unique in its focus"

Myth 2 -- "it seems to be just another Facebook wannabe, another social networking site duplicating what others have already done. How many instrument-making sites do we have time for?"

Reality -- It will be far from another Facebook, and far from all the instrument-making sites out there. It is not about instrument making. It is about the business of being an instrument maker and restorer. There is a huge difference.

Myth 3 -- "really unimpressed with linkedIn. It's kind of a laughing stock in my industry, at least."

Reality -- LinkedIn is bar-none the best professional and business networking site. I know at least 400 luthiers, worldwide, who are using it very effectively. Not for tech talk, but for business networking. Plus thousands of music industry people. LinkedIn is not challenged by Facebook's current funding issues, the ones which ruined MySpace, IMO. On the other hand, LinkedIn does not purport to be either a Facebook or a MySpace.

Another reality -- LuthierBuilt.net will of course not be based on LinkedIn, as LinkedIn's technologies, etc. are not appropriate for its purpose.

Myth 4 -- Michael Lewis and Paul Hostetter are humorless, mean-spirited souls.

Reality -- I love the "nobody knows your a dog" cartoon! Reminds me, very indirectly, of an early cartoon depiction of the Apple Lisa (the Mac's prototype predecessor). There is a spilled cup of coffee, with liquid running over and into the keyboard... The screen states "Needs more sugar!"

Myth 5 -- Bill Newby is Luthier Built's founder.

Reality -- Bill is my brother, and his hands and conscience are free and clear of my project. Please don't blame him...

Myth 6 -- Bob arbitrarily removes members from the Luthier Built group on LinkedIn.

Reality -- Ask the group's 400-plus members what their experience with me has been.

Myth 7 -- "his vaporware website is a solution in search of a problem in my opinion"

Reality -- I suppose that is why scores of musicians and luthiers from many countries have applauded me, in writing and in person, for starting down this path.

Myth 8 -- "Apparently he doesn't value honesty"

Reality -- Really? Who is it that is engaging in character assassination in this thread?

Myth 9 -- "its obvious he is casting his net to ensnare as many luthiers as possible"

Reality -- I do not have a net, certainly not one capable of performing such a disgusting deed.

Myth 10 -- "he hopes to bring business by having musicians contact us"

Reality -- Oops! That is actually not a myth. It is true. My bad.

Myth 11 -- "He is going to charge musicians $25.00 for a basic membership"

Reality -- Completely untrue.

Myth 12 -- "the web is free"

Reality -- The sun's energy is free. Somebody pays for the web.

Sincerely with best wishes to all,

Bob Newby
Founder of Luthier Built -- Where musicians and artisans meet

Our logo: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

[barney 59]

I couldn't find it. Can someone post a link?

[sebastiaan56]

Myth 12 -- "the web is free"

So far my participation on the Cafe has been free. Thank you sponsors!

[BobNewby]

I couldn't find it. Can someone post a link?

Hi Barney,

LuthierBuilt.net will be launched this fall.

Best,

Bob

[onlineluthier]

Bob- why don't you just fill us in on what you propose??? Rather than cruising the forums and ridiculing people for their opinions just tell us what you are proposing. That's what the thread asked??? A simple statement of what you plan and what you will charge for the service would easily answer questions. Which you take as personal attacks???? If I came out and said that I was founder of a site that would sell the best Mandolins and put everyone to shame I could expect that there would be some folks that might venture the opinion that it was redundant, some might say we don't need another mandolin maker etc... those are not personal attacks and this is America where everyone can express an opinion. "Vaporware" is usually applied to a touted product that does not yet exist.

Please- enlighten us on your vision in detail. I teach about 100 new luthier's each year and I would like nothing better than to tell them about your site.

[BobNewby]

Bob- why don't you just fill us in on what you propose??? Rather than cruising the forums and ridiculing people for their opinions just tell us what you are proposing. That's what the thread asked??? A simple statement of what you plan and what you will charge for the service would easily answer questions. Which you take as personal attacks???? If I came out and said that I was founder of a site that would sell the best Mandolins and put everyone to shame I could expect that there would be some folks that might venture the opinion that it was redundant, some might say we don't need another mandolin maker etc... those are not personal attacks and this is America where everyone can express an opinion. "Vaporware" is usually applied to a touted product that does not yet exist.

Please- enlighten us on your vision in detail. I teach about 100 new luthier's each year and I would like nothing better than to tell them about this great deal.

Dear <name deleted at the request of criticizer>,

I am addressing <name deleted at the request of criticizer>, am I not? I always use my name, by the way. Respectfully, neither the originator of this thread nor anybody else here asked me about Luthier Built, in this forum. Nobody here invited me to comment. Nobody said, "Hey, Bob, there's a question at the Mandolin Café about your project. I chanced upon the thread, and I noticed, in particular, your in-the-face, negative, inaccurate commentary.

You are upset because after spending a mere couple of minutes in the Luthier Built group on LinkedIn, you hastily posted a comment filled with CAPITALIZED WORDS, sequences of ?????? question marks, sequences of !!!!!!!!! exclamation marks, and nothing constructive. You did not ask me any questions. Rather, after I graciously invited you to my venue, you immediately took advantage of the opportunity to shout out your umbrage at my business model. That is not something I would ever do with respect to your venue(s) and your business endeavors. You are upset because, after you behaved in that manner, I removed you from the group.

If you are going to post negative, inaccurate commentary about me, or about anybody else, in a public forum, then those who are misrepresented have all the right to set the record straight. That is true anywhere there is free speech -- it is not an American-only standard of conduct, by the way.

And, as for the record, everybody who is a member of the Luthier Built group on LinkedIn has received an extraordinary amount of information about the project. Ask Michael Lewis, and he will attest as much. Many of them, including those who have questioned the proposed value proposition and/or the business model, have participated in the group with the utmost respect and constructiveness. You did not. It is as simple as that.

Peace,

Bob

[onlineluthier]

Bob-- I am truly sorry we got off on wrong foot.. it was unintentional whatever wrong you perceived I did. I notice you did not answer the question but you engaged in a personal attack... I have no desire to engage you but I truly would like to know what you propose and how much you expect to charge for the service... that is what "Lefty Luthier" asked when he asked for the whole enchilada.... others then expressed their opinion Bob, including myself. You then responded not by a positive statement of what you are about but by ridiculing everyone that posted... I ask you again to tell us what you propose in a positive way.

[sunburst]

Somehow I think my decision may have been made for me.
No explanation of why I might want to join or what the benefits are, only defensive negativity.
Bob, what gives?

[Lefty Luthier]

WOW - When I started this thread, I was simply searching for factual information, independent from the promoter with no intention of it becoming a pissing contest or going behind anyone's back. The reason that I love the Cafe is that us older builders get the chance to help newcomers to the trade and swap unique concepts, processes and problems. Lord knows that I don't need any help getting business so paying for an unproven advertising venue is not on my horizon. I wish nothing but the best for Bob Newby but expecting experienced luthiers to blindly accept unproven programs is not realiastic.

[onlineluthier]

I apologize to everyone on this forum for apparently bringing this to the forum.. it was not my intent. I was simply responding to a fellow luthiers.

[Ted Eschliman]

I have removed the name in an earlier post at the request of the preceding poster. We do value participants' wishes for privacy.

Let us register that with anononymity, so goes credibility. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Ron Hale]

Bob- why don't you just fill us in on what you propose??? Rather than cruising the forums and ridiculing people for their opinions just tell us what you are proposing. That's what the thread asked??? A simple statement of what you plan and what you will charge for the service would easily answer questions.
--snip--

No need to apologize onlineluthier. You made it too easy for this guy to give the direct answers those on this thread are wanting to know, and he still couldn't get on track. If his business skills are anything like his social skills, you've lost nothing.
Ronnie

[onlineluthier]

Thanks Ron...

[BobNewby]

I have removed the name in an earlier post at the request of the preceding poster. We do value participants' wishes for privacy.

Let us register that with anononymity, so goes credibility. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Utter nonsense. <name deleted> mentioned me by name, but I cannot mention him? Utter, complete nonsense. Also notice I did not refer to him, nor anybody else, as 'that guy', as several here have referred to me.

Go with peace,

Bob

[MikeEdgerton]

I think you're done Bob.

[Ted Eschliman]

Agreed.