The "bluegrass" stigma

[John Rosett]

I play in a straight-ahead jazz trio with a guitarist and an upright bassist, and we've been cultivating a Friday evening gig at at local winery's tasting room. Getting the publicity part going with them has been difficult, to say the least. They finally did a music listing (something that they wanted to handle themselves), and it says "Jazzy Bluegrass with 2 local musicians."
This just drives me crazy! We don't play anything remotely bluegrass-like. It's just that they see the mandolin and assume that we're going to break out with "Man of constant sorrow" or something.
Anyway, just a rant I guess. Anybody else get this kind of mis-perseption?

[Dale Ludewig]

I guess you could learn to play some bluegrass tunes. I play bluegrass, jazz, gypsy, whatever- as best I can. A lot of modern bluegrass, certainly the breaks, is basically jazz. Tell the folks to listen to The Bluegrass Sessions with Bela Fleck, or even more so: The Telluride Sessions. That ain't no part of nothin'.

[djweiss]

I get it all the time in my country/swing/honky-tonk trio...even the Bill Monroe tunes we do end up swinging more than driving...yet, we're almost always billed as bluegrass.

[swinginmandolins]

I met a guitarist who went to Berklee and studied jazz. I said "cool let's get a duo together". We played a couple of jazz tunes when we got together, then ended up playing bluegrass tunes. The next time we got together it was pretty much bluegrass. Come to find out that is really what he wanted to play. That duo didn't turn out as I want to play jazz. One thing about them billing you as bluegrass, you may get more to turn out and expose them to the mandolin in a different context.

[JEStanek]

It's a shame when a venue brands yourself for you. Can you have a talk with the owners to help them understand how the way they are branding you (Jazzy Bluegrass) misrepresents the group and could hurt their business. If people come out expecting bluegrass standards but get jazz standards instead, that puts them out of mind to purchase wines and return visits.

I think this is more an ignorance on their part to what the genre labels will mean in people's heads. At tastings, vintners go to lengths to explain what folks are tasting and where it came from, you just want a similar respect for what you will be presenting the customers with.

Jamie

[mandroid]

Maybe you can use the long thread on the topic as reference,

and say: it's not possibly bluegrass, See, no Banjo ..

[swinginmandolins]

You make a great point I hadn't considered. We as musicians should be respected for what we do. It is frustrating people thinking just because a mandolin is present there is some representation of bluegrass.

[farmerjones]

man, that thread tittle peaked my interest.

This door swings both ways. What i, what we do, what we play is mostly Blues, Hot Club, and Swingin Jazz, but i can't mention the J word without everything getting cold. I guess they don't want to start wearing black turtlenecks, and twead jackets, and ordering white wine. I don't even know if i got my stereotype right, but i hope you understand what im trying to say. But being billed as something you ain't, is tuff. I'm thinking the best solution to this is stick with your own brand, and somehow lock that in the contract. Even if you're name isn't Doc Watson, or Jimmy Buffett. If you've got a sound, and you religously connect it to a name, it should stick. Eventually everybody will know "The Fireplugs" as that great combo that plays that great music.

[Ted Eschliman]

I guess they don't want to start wearing black turtlenecks, and twead jackets, and ordering white wine. I don't even know if i got my stereotype right, but i hope you understand what im trying to say.

I like the idea of jazz "ambassadorship." If full-frontal jazz is too much, meat them halfway. Maybe the trio could start wearing bib overalls and berets.

High mountain bebop.

[Gary Hedrick]

There is a certain sucess with this issue and a certain element of "that's just the way it is".
For many years I always hated when we played somewhere and it was advertised as country music and when I played folks asked me about my "funny little guitar". Times change and knowledge does too and voila you have your current issue....everything with a mandolin is bluegrass and almost everything that is acoustical is bluegrass. Hell the average person has no real idea of music and all of it's rich varieties.....

[JeffD]

wearing bib overalls and berets.

.

run away

[wamjr52]

Jeff, to cool for words, dig it man dig it!

[JeffD]

Many years ago I used to run a coffeehouse. We would all the time get promotional material from various bands, artists, singer songwriters, etc. They would provide various written material, press releases, etc., that we would use in our advertising. Perhaps you have to lead the venue by the nose by writing your own promotional material for them to use directly.

I am surprised. Jazz and wine just go together. A distillery perhaps would book a bluegrass act.

[farmerjones]

i told them guys if you just let your beer flatten out, everyone'll think it's chablee.

im thinkin - Hot Club Du Basse-Cour


Y'know Bobby Osbourn's coming to Lincoln, Maybe i should stow my beret, just for the day.

[John Rosett]

Maybe the trio could start wearing bib overalls and berets.

High mountain bebop.

You've seen our act?

[John Rosett]

I don't really think that there is a "solution" to the problem. It IS nice to be able to complain about it to people who understand...
I've been playing swing and jazz on mandolin for a long time, and it's always been this way. I don't honestly know if it would be better or worse if they were paying more attention. We have somewhere to play on a Friday evening (for tips at this point), and we pretty much do as we please, so it could be alot worse...

[man dough nollij]

I like the idea of jazz "ambassadorship." If full-frontal jazz is too much, meat them halfway. Maybe the trio could start wearing bib overalls and berets.

High mountain bebop.

Or turtlenecks and Stetsons?

[Pete Martin]

Hey John, just use Scott's tagline in your promo: "Jazz, it's better than it sounds"

[John Rosett]

Hey John, just use Scott's tagline in your promo: "Jazz, it's better than it sounds"

I tried that, but he wanted a royalty check.

[John McGann]

...the average person has no real idea of music and all of it's rich varieties.....

This is too true. All we can do is try and expose them to good stuff by trying to present good music.

Another real bargain is that diehard bluegrass lovers often "hate jazz", and diehard jazz lovers often "hate bluegrass". Usually the "hate" also coincides with a very superficial acquaintance with the style; sometimes it's political...these styles have so much in common...I wouldn't want to live in a world that excluded either of them!

Frank Zappa had two great observations along these lines- that no style of music becomes popular without a clothing style to go with it, and that "lifestyle reinforcement music" (how the guy with the red Ferrari would rather be seen with smooth jazz vs. a fuzz guitar solo) is an important marketing concept ("The Real Frank Zappa Book" is right up there with "Can't You Hear Me Calling" and "A Day In The Life of The King of Bluegrass, Jimmy Martin" for excellent reading).

To paraphrase the great Irish playwright Brendan Behan in a family-friendly format: "Forget the begrudgers!" Play and be happy.

It's great (and for me, a privilege) to play for any audience who is receptive. Good music is good for everybody!

[MandoNicity]

I'm gettin' hep to that be bop grazz daddyo!

[AlanN]

diehard bluegrass lovers often "hate jazz", and diehard jazz lovers often "hate bluegrass".

Glad I ain't diehard! My MP3 player has just that mix on it - everything from Nat Cole to Art Tatum to Jim Hall to Mingus to 3TO to Bill Monroe to Joe Carr to Larry Stephenson. It's been bluegrass and jazz for me for the last 30 years. Grisman, Bela, Rice et al. did so much to meld the 2 and really stoke my appreciation and 'learn my ears'.

The 2 genres just tickle my fancy.

[John Soper]

Not Jazz context, but in college played in a country-rock band- we got booked in a dive when our manager emphasized the "country" or the owner didn't hear the "rock". 5 tie-dyed freaks walk into a bar in Hills, Iowa... Wish we'd had a chicken wire screen.

Years later in North Carolina, a different band was booked to play a pig-pickin' fundraiser for a Democratic Candidate for Congress. They must have only heard the "Blues" in Bluegrass, 'cause the band and the candidate were the only Caucasians in the venue. We got one or two suspicious looks as we unloaded. Fortunately, it was a Sunday afternoon- we played every Blue-eyed Gospel song that we knew the first set & ended up having a lot of fun with that gig.

And I personally second the appreciation for Grisman as a key "bridge" figure for trans-genre ear opening...

[emitfo]

I've never known anyone else who read Frank's autobiography--the person I loaned it to ended up disappearing. Great book! The "lifestyle reinforcement" angle (what I think you call "political" is absolutely right on. In our yutes as we search for our identity apart from our parents our music choices often are "that's how I'd like to seen" driven rather than they are music driven. Which is ok, there's good music everywhere but at a certain point it behooves people to discard that modus operandus and take note of the collection of vibrations and it's effects upon our mind, body & soul. Which *most* musicians do, which is why, as a group, musicians are more interesting than other groups. And that's my bias!

This is too true. All we can do is try and expose them to good stuff by trying to present good music.

Another real bargain is that diehard bluegrass lovers often "hate jazz", and diehard jazz lovers often "hate bluegrass". Usually the "hate" also coincides with a very superficial acquaintance with the style; sometimes it's political...these styles have so much in common...I wouldn't want to live in a world that excluded either of them!

Frank Zappa had two great observations along these lines- that no style of music becomes popular without a clothing style to go with it, and that "lifestyle reinforcement music" (how the guy with the red Ferrari would rather be seen with smooth jazz vs. a fuzz guitar solo) is an important marketing concept ("The Real Frank Zappa Book" is right up there with "Can't You Hear Me Calling" and "A Day In The Life of The King of Bluegrass, Jimmy Martin" for excellent reading).

To paraphrase the great Irish playwright Brendan Behan in a family-friendly format: "Forget the begrudgers!" Play and be happy.

It's great (and for me, a privilege) to play for any audience who is receptive. Good music is good for everybody!

[Plectrosaurus]

Hey! I've got one of the 'funny little guitars' also. I am not offended by their ignorance. It's always good for a laugh even if I'm the only one who gets it.

There is a certain sucess with this issue and a certain element of "that's just the way it is".
For many years I always hated when we played somewhere and it was advertised as country music and when I played folks asked me about my "funny little guitar". Times change and knowledge does too and voila you have your current issue....everything with a mandolin is bluegrass and almost everything that is acoustical is bluegrass. Hell the average person has no real idea of music and all of it's rich varieties.....