novice breaking tailpiece prongs when tuning

[Charlieshafer]

Timely thread! A girl in our fiddle club started the mandolin a few months ago with the exact same model, and she broke one of her "e" prongs as well. I was sitting in on the tuning with all the instruments, and it was being tuned correctly. A bad batch of tailpieces? Nice little instrument otherwise! And, philosophical question here, at what point is replacing the tailpiece with an Allen or something else a little silly for a cost-sensitive instrument?

[MandoJam]

I think Mandroid's post about making sure the string is properly seated at the base of the prong is a great point.

[MikeEdgerton]

...at what point is replacing the tailpiece with an Allen or something else a little silly for a cost-sensitive instrument?

When the price of the tailpiece exceeds the cost of the mandolin with tax and shipping by 30%.

Tough one to call, if Saga has a bad batch of tailpieces out there I hope they are shipping good ones to their dealers.

[MandoJam]

Bad Mike!

[Charlieshafer]

When the price of the tailpiece exceeds the cost of the mandolin with tax and shipping by 30%.
.

That's what we need, no mamby-pamby answers. I like specifics!! Actually, the only reason I thought it would be worthwhile at all is that at least you can take the tailpiece to your next mandolin, otherwise, it does seem sort of silly...

[cflamm]

thanks all for your continued suggestions. it's nice to know i'm not the only one with this problem. robert is sending me yet another tailpiece - what a guy - and hopefully i'll be up and running with this one.

i might do as a few of you suggested and skip the horizontal prong, and just use the vertical one. i had thought of doing that earlier.

carl

[Ed Goist]

Hi Carl:
I've gotten quite caught-up and interested in this thread...
Please let us know how all of this plays out!
-Ed
P.S.: In today's commodity-driven marketplace it is heartening to see examples of exemplary customer service.

[Bertram Henze]

Let's throw in some basic physics. A string should never be able to bend a tailpiece prong up if the loop is positioned where it belongs, i.e. at the very base of the prong.
However, the prong base is often wider than the loop, so during winding up the string, instead of slipping all the way to the base, the loop might get caught nearer to the tip of the prong and the full force of string tension can easily lift the prong (which is just a thin cut-out sheet of metal, after all).
To prevent that, I always push the loop down to the prong base before winding up, keep an eye on it during winding and never had a misplaced loop lift a prong.

[Chris Ferreira]

I had the same experience with a Kentucky 150 a few months back. But mine blew out on a D string. Fortunately it was still under warranty so Janet Davis arranged a replacement tailpiece. (And I learned how not to fear taking off all of the strings to install it.) I expect there was a bad batch or something. The new one is working fine. A little advice on those tailpieces - a bit of candle wax on the rails makes the cover slide off a lot easier. I thought I was going to snap it off the first time I changed the strings!

[astroboy]

My first thought was: "Well, if the G-D-A strings are in tune and pitch, why not fret the A string (at the 7th fret) for the E you're looking for?" That'll avoid the the whole "Is it E5 or E6 or something else my tuner is sending me to?" question as you go for the last string or course. When you're tuned close to the fretted A string, *then* follow the tuner.

[Folkmusician.com]

I was going to let Carl post the follow up, but he must be busy playing!

The third tailpiece arrived, was installed and the mandolin tuned up fine. woo hoo! This was actually a different tailpiece though. This was one that Saga sent me that may have been old stock. It was a bit heavier.

I go through a lot of KM-150 mandolins (according to Saga I sell more than anyone). Up until this point, I have had an average percentage of tailpiece issues on the Km-150 mandolin. Tailpiece tabs snapping off seems to be equally common across all the mandolins I am selling, with the exception of one offender that I won't name (not Kentucky).

I have setup and shipped quite a few KM-150 mandolins just before and since Carl's mandolin. I didn't experience any issues setting up/testing the mandos, and I have not heard about any problems from other customers.

So, why did two tailpieces in a row break? I suppose we may never know.


I have always suspected that tuning too high is the reason for the majority of broken string tabs. I have snapped a couple during setups that went for no apparent reason. This is a very small percentage, but having seen it first hand, I realize that it can happen.

I was watching some Shark week episodes last night and they had the Myth Busters episode. Hmm.... I doubt I will get around to this, but it would be interesting to take some damaged tailpieces and see if I can intentionally snap the tabs off by tuning too high.

[swain]

cflamm, it would not be unusual for two tailpieces to be defective if they are coming from the same manufacturer, same lot of steel, same stamping die, etc.

The fact that the same prong has broken on more than one tailpiece could indicate 1) a bad lot of steel or 2)something in the stamping die creating a defect that acts as a "stress riser" or a combination of the above. You could be doing everything right and still break the same prong on hundreds of tailpieces if there were a material/manufucturing problem.

The manufacturer/importer should be notified so that he can address his problem. And you can address your problem by installing an aftermarkettailpiecefrom another manufacturer.

swain
Vega F on the bench
pacrim A
Peterson Octave

[GaryTimmons]

Hi folks,
I did a search and this thread seems to fit with my issues breaking tailpieces tabs.
I recently as of last week finished my latest build. I have had tabs break off in the past and I am careful each each time I put on new strings. As with regards to what Bertram said above I did make an effort to have the loops down as low as possible. Never the less I had a tab on the on of the D strings snap off and A tab start pulling up. I called LMI and was told these were their economy tailpieces. They'll replace the tailpiece but what I'd like to ask the folks here, "Does anyone know if there are stamped tailpieces of a heavier gauge metal available in this style".

[Disembodied Loaf]

I got the same mando on the 11th. That day, the hook for the same e string as yours broke. I didn't tune it too high and I still haven't received my replacement from instrument alley (don't buy from them!). I don't get how one could attempt to tune that string an octave high. It sounds very high as it is so I don't understand why people think it's supposed to be an octave higher. Actually, I replaced my strings and at first they were an octave too low and I was scared of tuning them too high so I watched a vid to learn how the g string is supposed to sound.