F-7's had the squared-off fingerboard, fleur-de-lys inlay on the headstock, less elaborate fingerboard inlays, silver- rather than gold-plated hardware. Here's an excellent set of F-7 photos.
F-7's had the squared-off fingerboard, fleur-de-lys inlay on the headstock, less elaborate fingerboard inlays, silver- rather than gold-plated hardware. Here's an excellent set of F-7 photos.
Allen Hopkins
Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
Natl Triolian Dobro mando
Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
H-O mandolinetto
Stradolin Vega banjolin
Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
Flatiron 3K OM
I have a '74 F12 that was in fantastic shape and played nice. But it was dead. I just got it back from Randy Wood about 3 weeks ago. Unbelievable difference. It is a fantastic sounding mandolin.
Bob
re simmers
Hey Bob,
Congratulations on having Randy Wood perform his "magic" on your F-12. You did the right thing by having the work done, especially on a '74 which look good but generally sound pretty bad.
I got my '56 back from him in June '08 and it's still getting better all the time. Pre-Randy it got "good" sounding after about an hour of steady pounding but never was very loud. It would need to be woken up every day and sounded like it was stuffed with cotton socks. Since the revoicing job, it is much louder and has developed that mature Gibson sound. Randy told me on the phone that it would sound like Sam B's "Hoss" and he was right on that count (even though I don't use the Sam B strings. I tried a set and didn't like their "thuddy" sound).
IMHO - the post war F-12's can be great sounding in their own right or can be helped along with the help of Randy Wood. As far as pre-war F-12's are concerned, I would not alter one and sacrifice the collector's value. They are what they are!! I think that Gibson is doing it right by reissuing a new take on the pre-war F-12. The visual appointments look authentic from across the picking circle but the long neck gives it more playability and the voice of a good F-5.
Len B.
Clearwater, FL
Unless I'm reading the copy incorrectly, it's never characterized as a reissue. It is characterized as an "anniversary model," which, in this case, means that the closest original issue model was the F-12. Pure marketing, but then again, how many flavors of F-5 have we seen over the years?
I agree that you're technically correct, but the copy also is full of phrases about "honoring the legacy" and "period-correct details''; "cut to original specs," "period-correct mahogany neck," "holds true to its ancestor's heritage," "honor...the original model of the mid-1930's." The finish, peghead shape and inlay, etc., are described as identical or similar to the '30's F-12. I think Gibson's trying to have it both ways: to take one of their standard F-5's, give it somewhat different finish and inlay, call it an "F-12," and market it to people who will think they're getting a re-creation of the rare and valuable '30's F-12. In the past, the F-5 and the F-12 were different models, easily distinguished. So in what respect besides finish and ornamentation, does this current "F-12" differ from one of the various F-5 models that Gibson's producing?
Seems to me -- please correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm no expert on contemporary Gibsons -- that they're producing what is basically the same mandolin in a variety of finishes, bindings and inlays, with a few distinctions (lack of fretboard extension, e.g. on certain models). In what fundamental construction aspects does a Jam Master differ from an F-9, F-5G, and on up? Radius fingerboard, presence/absence of the fingerboard extension -- is that it, and the rest is finishes and inlays and "this one has the more figured wood"?
Not being critical, not "Gibson bashing," just looking for information and enlightenment.
Allen Hopkins
Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
Natl Triolian Dobro mando
Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
H-O mandolinetto
Stradolin Vega banjolin
Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
Flatiron 3K OM
I inferred from Charlie Derrington's remarks in the interview that I read a while back (can't remember if it was in the Cafe or Mandozine) that Gibson puts as much structural work into a plain old F9 as they do in an F5 to meet the company's standards. He may not have said it outright, but the clear implication of his remarks is that the F-models are essentially built off the same pattern (with some model differences in bracing, neck profile, fingerboard, etc.) to the same structural standard. Maybe Joe can enlighten us here.
I could see this more being a "John Duffy Signature Model" except John is not around to sign it. Or maybe a "John Duffy Tribute Model F12" but a mid 30's F12 it ain't so why all the hype that it is? Reminds me of when Ford reintroducted the new Thunderbird following the style and shape of the mid 50's Thunderbird. NOT!
Since the mid 30's F12 was not exactly a popular selling mandolin for Gibson it would be like Ford coming out with an anniversary "Edsel" and expecting to sell a million of them. NOT! The plus side is if it does play and sound like the current F5s then at least it will be a great sounding mandolin in the Gibson tradition. I just don't see it out selling the new Fern.
Hi Folks - Just came across this thread and noticed that nobody has mentioned what I consider the most unique feature of the F-12 Gibson is currently building; the F-12G and F-12 Anniversary models have a 1 3/16" mahogany necks with wide frets. The rest is fairly standard; maple back and ribs, spruce top, top and back vintage binding, gold hardware. I'll leave it up to ya'll to go back and forth about what gibson 'should be doing', but I will anti up my 2 cents and say that Mr. Harvey is putting out some very impressive mandolins, and the mahogany neck adds a nice warm touch to the tone without getting too mellow.
I don't have a lot of personal experience with all the variations of the vintage F-12's, but for whats its worth, I had a older gentleman in his 80's in the store a few weeks ago and after showing him the F-12, he pulled out an 8x11 picture from a manila envelope of himself as a young man at an Air Force base in Tokyo holding his F-12 playing next to another young man sitting down holding his guitar with his eyes crossed.
He asked me "Do you know whats wrong with that guy?"
"I dunno, looks like he's not feeling too well."
"That's 'cause he's so drunk he can't stand, much less play that guitar."
My dealings with the F-12 are as follows: about 1991, I bought a used F-12, made in '67. After giving $1100 for it, I sold it for $1250. Now, that same instrument would bring $3000, or more. The instrument was difficult to deal with, but it seemed to "mic" well. With the unbound peghead and block-lettered LOGO, it wasn't much to look at. Also, the two back halves were horribly UN-matched! I don't regret letting it go.
I have just purchased one of the limited 75th anniversary f-12 mandolins from Dave. It is incredible. The Mahogany neck give the tone a little richer and warmer tone over the standard f-5s. it rings well and has no problem being heard. My opinion is that if you find one....it is well worth the investment. Dave told me he only made 10 of these. I love the look and I get alot of compliments when playing out......I'm the mandolin player for HighPoint Quartet. we play gospel bluegrass all around the South East and it gets around. i love it for that it doesn't look like the normal F-5 everyone has. I honestly like it better that the master model or the victorian. You wont see these often.....so they definitly stand out.
Here is a couple pics from a 1970 Gibson mandolin brochure that I had around, that show the F5 artist and the F12 artist side by side. You will note the descriptions are reversed from the pics. Quality control somewhat befitting of the Norlin era!
Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.
Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!
Lyon & Healy • Wood • Thormahlen • Andersen • Bacorn • Yanuziello • Fender • National • Gibson • Franke • Fuchs • Aceto • Three Hungry Pit Bulls
Bumping an old thread to ask a question.
I recently saw a 1952 Gibson F-12 at a pawn shop for $2300. It looked pretty nice, but I remembered this thread and the fact that most players don't get that excited about an F-12. I see Elderly currently has a 1950 F-12 for $3600 for comparison. $2300 seemed fair, but still a lot of money if there is no interest at resell time. Or if it is a slow mover. I'm sure if it were $1500 or so, I probably would have convinced myself to buy it, since you don't see that many Gibsons with a curley-cue at a pawn shop. Any thoughts?
Did you play it? Did it seem to handle well, have good tone & projection, etc.? I don't think I would spend $2300 unless I expected to be playing it for a while. You might be able to talk the shop owner down a bit.
Akira Otsuka let me have a go at Duffey's F12 a couple of years ago and brother, it was difficult to play. I couldn't do much with it.
Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.
Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!
Lyon & Healy • Wood • Thormahlen • Andersen • Bacorn • Yanuziello • Fender • National • Gibson • Franke • Fuchs • Aceto • Three Hungry Pit Bulls
I know of many players who prefer their ovals with the traditional 12th fret body join as opposed to what's often called the hybrid join at the 15th fret. Does anyone prefer their instruments with f-holes to have a 12th fret body join, whether it be with the F7/10/12 or the A00/40/50? Does anyone prefer the sound of Monroe on his F7 to his Loar?
1924 Gibson A Snakehead
2005 National RM-1
2007 Hester A5
2009 Passernig A5
2015 Black A2-z
2010 Black GBOM
2017 Poe Scout
2014 Smart F-Style Mandola
2018 Vessel TM5
2019 Hogan F5
It seemed fine, but of course, it was the only mandolin there--nothing to compare it to. I guess what I'm asking is, are 50's Gibson mandolins just an uninteresting time period (for Gibsons)? If it were a 1952 F-5 would anybody care? I guess I'm confused because 50's Gibson guitars are very sought after, both acoustic and electric. I know there is a price that would make the mandolin interesting, but I'm afraid it would be lower than what the seller would accept.
Hi everyone. I've been reading through all the threads I could find on F-12s over the last couple of weeks, as a good looking pre-war model has come up for auction round these parts. It was sold today - See https://www.bellmans.co.uk/sales/sus...view-lot/1270/
A few trawls online produced plenty of post-war examples, but no other examples of pre-war f-12s for sale. It has made me wonder, how many original (pre-war) F-12s were produced in total - does anybody know?
The one that sold at Bellmans is the same one sold at Christies around the year 2000. Serial number the same. It was listed as an F1 but that was obviously an error. I did not buy it. My bid was too low.
Not too many pre-war F-12's left original these days, I had a very nice 1935 all original but I recently swapped it! It was nothing special sounding but very nice looking and rare! I'd say there are less original 12's than the F-10's! Just from what I've came across in 20 odd years.
What did the mandolin sell for at the auction?
Edit: I see it states £5,500! At first glance the case looks to be American when in fact, it is a high quality British made case- the metalware and handle gives it away.
Last edited by NickR; Nov-27-2020 at 5:11am.
The rare pre-war F-12's were expensive, only the F-5 cost more! Then the F-10 and the cheaper one was the F-7! The 10 and 12 had the same fancy inlays in the peg head and board and "Florida" extension, the 7 was elevated but the end squared off with Nick Lucus style board inlays and the fluer-di-lis in the peg head but latter got the same peg head inlay as the 10 and 12 "The urn type curlicue" The 10 was all black, the 12 was a reddish top burst while the 7 had a brownish Cremona burst, the 12 had the gold plated hardware and same tuners as the period F-5, the early 10's and 12's had the ivoried tuner buttons, but later in about 36 they went to the metal buttons.
The Harvey/Gibson 75th Anniversary 7, 10, and 12's looked just like the pre-war models but had the long 5 scale neck also in Mahogany but were all Sitka topped rather than Adirondack like the pre-war models-I do know of one newer F-7 with the Adirondack top. That's about all I know on these odd but great originals and anniversary models! I had an 09 Harvey F-10 that was very nice!
A mid-30s F12 is rare- and presumably extremely rare in the UK- and this one being an import when new. That £5,500 bid would attract a buyer's commission of 22% with VAT on that. That would be £1210 plus £242 VAT which is £1452, and there may be a charge for bidding online but with lockdown, that may be currently removed although that might be wishful thinking! So, that winning bid means the buyer has to pay nearly £7,000 for the mandolin before a packing and shipping charge is added.
Must be incredibly rare in the Britain, and now possibly even rarer, as one of the late telephone bidders was from France.
I was hoping for a "bargain" but got outbid fairly quickly. Bellman's clearly didn't know what they had on their hands as the estimated price was £400-600! But their marketing department must be better than their mandolin valuing as there were many bidders.
Most auction house sales- except from specialist auctions have risible valuations that are not based on real knowledge. The final bids are made by those with that knowledge and if two or three bidders really want the item, then the price escalates. I don't really know what an F12 from this era might be worth as they are so rare- I don't suppose this was a great bargain but there is nothing with which to make a comparison. I kick myself for not bidding on a 1935 Nick Lucas guitar that was on eBay a few years ago, which was a bargain it seems, although it was still expensive. Sadly, the seller's moronic reply to what I considered a very reasonable question made me stay away and nobody put in a bid. Had it been closer to home I would have been keen to look at it. By all accounts it had been in his family for decades- he said his family had run a music shop and he had once worked in it. I was tempted to reply that given his invincible ignorance he had spent his time there sweeping the floor but I just ignored the auction.
Bookmarks