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Thread: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

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    Default Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    I'm curious about the possibilities of using a magnetic pickup on a traditional acoustic A model. I've seen guitars with pickups attached to the pickguard or to the neck with minimal invasion. Are there any such methods for adapting a mandolin?

    I already have a K&K twin installed, but am going for that magnetic sound...

    Also, I presume a string change from the PB's to nickel would also be in order...?

    thanks!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    I have a barcus berry magnetic pick up that sticks to the face under the strings with two sided tape.i do not think they sell these any more but someone might sell you theirs . or you could get something like a kent armstrong arch top guitar slim line mini humbucker for neck position. my friend uses one and the sound is great.You just have to bend the bracket in a little ans screw it in to the neck. you might be able to use a similar style with out the attaching brackets and stick it to the face under the strings. my friend said he found his mini humbucker online for 15$.

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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    What is the shape of the end of the fretboard? Do you have a pickguard?

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    If the end of the fingerboard is flat and you have enough vertical clearance, you could try attaching the edge of the pickup to the end of the fingerboard with adhesive. That keeps it suspended above the top so it doesn't interfere acoustically with the tone of the mandolin, and it's a clean-looking installation. The humbucker on my Breedlove/Zenkl mandola was installed that way. The output wire runs down into the adjacent F-hole and out through the endpin jack.

    If the end of your fingerboard isn't flat, you could try carving a wood shim that matched the curve (and mated with the underlying neck block, if any), with a straight edge on the other side to mount the pickup.

    And yes, you'll probably want nickel or other magnetically responsive strings. I'm using TI flatwounds on my acoustic/electric mandola and they sound terrific. The Jazzmando JM-11's should work fine too, also probably the Gibson/Bush monel strings, or any other steel or nickel wrap sets.

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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    Rico, thanks those are great suggestions. I'll see what I can find out--sounds like the Barcus might be a long shot, but the Kent Armstrong is more what I had in mind.

    It's an old Kentucky 250-S (japanese) with a 20-fret fingerboard ending about halfway between the 12 fret and the top of the f-holes, squared off, with binding.

    My present notion is to be able to go back and forth easily between 4 and 8 string setups.

    I will need nickel or stainless steel strings for the magnetic PU, right?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    nickel or stainless are better but you might still get away with phosphor bronze.i have never tried them but i think you should still get a signal. i don't know maybe i am way off the mark. i used to stuff an old $100 new plywood mandolin with tissue and tape the f-holes to eliminate feed back and acoustic volume. then you can practice while others sleep.might not want to do that to a good mando though.

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    I'd recommend getting a second mandolin for the purpose of 4 string conversion,
    rather than ' go back and forth ' from 8 to 4 strings, as you wish.. and then the single strings can be spaced equally , located in the gap between the location of pairs.

    I own a professionally done conversion .. It makes a difference , not having the strings in unequal spacing , for playability..

    but perhaps the initial Make Do, just to 'test the waters' , temporarily, until a second nut and re notched bridge can be made.

    yes, the string winding metal needs to be a Ferrous Alloy of nickel or stainless, it's the Iron Moving in the magnetic field being sensed by the coil of wire around the magnet, that makes the signal.

    I have my Conversion re strung for CGDA, mandola range, a nice swing/jazz sound.. for that conversion, of an A50, with little space between the tops of the fingerboard and top of the instrument, the Luthier set a narrow strat type, 4 pole stacked humbucker made by S Duncan into the top.
    it fits between tone bars so Its reinforced across the cut hole ..

    seems a Fender plywood 52E is a possible cheap conversion candidate, that you can just upgrade the parts on there since it's a Strat Format pickup, and re do the nut and bridge ..

    get one that is playable, flat fingerboard, etc.

    an Oval hole hybrid offers the possibility to have a soundhole plug, with the pickup set in the middle of the plug , and then an off body set of controls , for EQ and a volume pedal and the thing won't need many holes drilled ..
    .. on body knobs are convenient, though..
    Last edited by mandroid; Mar-02-2010 at 1:31pm.
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    Horton River NWT Rob Gerety's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    Many acoustic guitarists use PB strings with magnetic sound hole pickups and they work well.
    Rob G.
    Vermont

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    The core wire is Steel , that's why Bronze wound ones work, somewhat, the bronze in non magnetic . it's just Mass ..

    some nickel alloys are a higher Iron content , some have only a trace , Monel is a trace at best.
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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    'Droid,

    that makes sense--but the mandolin in question is already my "second." I use it (with the K&K system) on gigs where, for whatever reason, I don't use my best mandolin with a microphone. Sometimes the PA setup is less than ideal for the mic, sometimes the gig is too hazardous for my good mandolin for one or more reasons.

    I haven't tried it as a four-string yet, but I don't see the original nut/bridge spacing as a problem. I could think otherwise after trying it a while. If I were to go to the trouble of cutting a new nut and bridge I might as well do a 5-string.

    If I can still use the phosphor bronze strings I can switch back and forth between the K&K 8 string setup and the magnetic 4 string setup without too much muss and fuss--provided the wire strings don't break from the switching process.

    I have come across this thread from a while back which deals with the PU issue:

    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...d.php?p=594497

    Thanks to all who have chimed in on this--if anyone has any more ideas, please keep them coming.

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    In The Van Ben Milne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    I am unsure of the brand, but I have seen a little magnetic pickup with little plates which hinge and attach to the sides of the fingerboard using small screws . It would work well if you had a flat ended FB.

    The pickup is my Dad's - I'll find out what he knows about it - from memory I think he got it years ago. I think he might have had this in mind for 15. (I ended up with 14 with an extended FB) - I seem to remember feeling at the time that if i wanted an electric sound i would play an electric, as the sonic beauty of the acoustic would be the reason i would play such an instrument.

    Now I'm having pangs of MAS and thinking it would be great to be able to combine a miced-aco' sound with an electric.
    Unfortunately I'm in no position to advance on this, as my only funds are tied up with items to develop business aspects of my life Plus I am just getting past laying down a fair slab on my electric rig...
    Hereby & forthwith, any instrument with an odd number of strings shall be considered broken. With regard to mix levels, usually the best approach is treating the mandolin the same as a cowbell.

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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    Quote Originally Posted by Flattpicker View Post
    I haven't tried it as a four-string yet, but I don't see the original nut/bridge spacing as a problem. I could think otherwise after trying it a while. If I were to go to the trouble of cutting a new nut and bridge I might as well do a 5-string.
    I'd be more concerned about neck relief changing radically when changing between 4 and eight strings. You're doubling / halving the total string tension after all.

    If I can still use the phosphor bronze strings I can switch back and forth between the K&K 8 string setup and the magnetic 4 string setup without too much muss and fuss--provided the wire strings don't break from the switching process.
    I used to use a Fishman "Rare Earth" magnetic sound hole pickup on my acoustic guitar with bronze strings and it worked fine. Maybe a little less "bite" than nickel strings, though.


    John

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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanner098 View Post
    ... thinking it would be great to be able to combine a miced-aco' sound with an electric.
    ...
    I recall seeing/hearing Tim O'Brien with Hot Rize more than twenty years ago at Winterhawk and he had the best sound I'd ever heard on a mandolin. He had a lavalier mike and piezoelectric pickup with a stereo output that went through a preamp that combined the two source signals so he could dial in the optimal mix between the two. Add just a little reverb and - wow, what a great sound! I imagine that approach could be adapted to use a magnetic pickup in this case.

    BTW - as to the 4-string approach ... on my EM-150 I got so annoyed with even the slightest bit of discrepancy in tuning between two strings in a course sounding intolerably awful through the PA that I went single string, removing the right-hand string in each course to maintain consistent distance between strings. I chose those strings fro removal to allow for bending, which I tend to do by pulling rather than pushing, so I preferred having more room on the treble side. I also stuffed bandannas - no tape! - into the f-holes to discourage feedback.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    In The Van Ben Milne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    Something like this may be an effective option...
    Hereby & forthwith, any instrument with an odd number of strings shall be considered broken. With regard to mix levels, usually the best approach is treating the mandolin the same as a cowbell.

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    Horton River NWT Rob Gerety's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    Along these same lines - has anyone seen a magnetic sound hole pick up - (like a Baggs M1 or Sunrise) that is designed for oval hole mandolins?
    Rob G.
    Vermont

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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    that nano mag looks interesting has any one found out about the cost for one? i still think a post in the classified for the barcus berry magnetic pick up would yeild some results as they are very hot(active) and many people stopped using them.

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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Gerety View Post
    Along these same lines - has anyone seen a magnetic sound hole pick up - (like a Baggs M1 or Sunrise) that is designed for oval hole mandolins?
    My general sense is in contemporary mandolin sales, the Oval sound-hole type is a smaller niche
    of a small segment,
    A big contest for market share of the huge Guitar market versus a big fish in a small pond
    of a niche instrument .

    but I'm no Captain of industry , just another guy ..

    Basic Math, the selling price for a small run of a product will be higher than if there were a big run,
    dividing the development cost.

    ... will the customer base be willing to pony up $500+ a unit?

    {FWIW I measured the end of the fingerboard of my guitar .. 2.25",
    then the soundhole of my A4 .. 2.5" so the Shadow Nano Mag Could be used ,
    maybe a plug connector between one of those and a TapaString, would make a plug and play option,
    add a black box I/O to the end pin for co ax tone and volume pots [though hanging that off an eighth rather than a quarter inch jack is questionable]}
    Last edited by mandroid; Mar-03-2010 at 2:11pm.
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    Registered User Chip Booth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    I am also looking for a floating humbucking pickup to add to an archtop 4 string mandolin. The fingerboard has a flat end, and t could easily e installed. The obvious problem is size, the neck width is only 1 3/4", and a guitar floating pickup about an inch wider.

    Has anyone seen a smaller version that would work well for mandolin? I am looking for a warm, electric jazz sound (the mandolin has steel flatwounds on it), not an acoustic sound.


  19. #19

    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    Check out the EMG-B pickup made for bouzoukis. They have a little tab on them to mount them flush on the fingerboard or you can mount them in a soundhole.

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    Registered User Chip Booth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    Seems like a cool device, but they look too deep for my mandolin. The Kent Armstrong side mounted jazz pickup is seeming like the most comonly used option by builders I am finding in web searches. It's not quite 3 inches wide, larger than I'd like but when combined with a pickguard it might not look too bad.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    Several years back, and I searched for the thread with no luck, someone posted a modification they did to their Fender. As I recall, they removed part of the end of the fretboard but left the extension support under the board and mounted a pickup the thickness of the board on the extension. If I recall correctly, it was made by Bil Lawrence, but I am not sure. The thread has since disappeared and I'm not sure how to find it, but halfway down this thread is a photo and description of exactly what you are looking for. http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...-mando-pickups

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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    You might look around for one of the old DeArmond "monkey on a stick" mandolin pickups. I've retrofitted them to acoustic mandos with good success. They're readily available used on eB*y, much less pricey than the comparable guitar pickups (which command serious bucks these days from archtop jazz guitar players).
    EdSherry

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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    I've been looking on the 'net, and most of the mini humbuckers are too thick to fit. I have come across an old Dean Markley Pro-Mag (single coil) soundhole pickup that's been lying around my studio for years. It's also too thick, but it's in a wooden housing which MIGHT be sanded to a suitable thickness (or thinness, as the case may be). Haven't had the time to mess with it yet, and if it can be thinned I have to figure a way to make a bracket to attach it to the neck or some way to attach it to the pickguard (if it's not too heavy for that).

    In the meantime I've removed 4 strings and have played it through an amp using the K&K pickups. The neck seems fine after 36 hours. So far I'm pleased with the results, though it doesn't have that magnetic pickup sound and there are possible feedback issues. However, being an acoustic archtop instrument, there will be feedback issues with a magnetic pickup as well. For the record, an old Japanese Kentucky 250-S makes a pretty decent 4-string electric. This one was re-fretted after 25 years or so and was set up extremely well by an ex-Collings guy.

    Gotta say, I'm surprised that it's so hard to find a mag pickup that's less than a half-inch deep.

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    Any one that owns a Phoenix Jazz mandolin offer to measure the dimensions of one of the pickups used on those?

    It certainly would be useful for this discussion, for comparison purposes.....
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    Default Re: Magnetic PU on Acoustic A-style with minimum fuss/alteration

    Barcus Berry used to make a Dobro magnetic pickup that was very thin. You might be able to find an old one kicking around.
    EdSherry

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