Music Theory- Biting the bullet

[Daijoki]

I'm interested in biting the bullet and learning music theory, but every time I start poking around I'm overcome with vertigo (so much out there ) or exhaustion (so much of it's D R Y ).

Does anyone have a recommendation for user-friendly place to start (mandolin-specific content preferred)?

Thanks in advance,

Scott

[KristinEliza]

I don't know about 'mandolin specific' but an excellent self-teaching theory book that I use with my high school students is "Practical Theory Complete - a Self-Instruction Music Theory Course" By Sandy Feldstein

Doesn't have a key for all the worksheets, but does have a key for the review exercises.

NFI

[farmerjones]

Our own Mandolin Pete's website would be one of my first choices.

http://www.petimarpress.com/

Site owner Scott's Jazzmando.com
is good too. Applied theory.

I'll be honest, though i've studied some, i only retain what i use frequently. Sort of like speaking Japanese. But you can bet i know where to go if a have a question.

[pickloser]

For mandolin-centric vertigo avoidance, I'd give this a look: http://www.petimarpress.com/downloads/Theory.pdf

Not everything you might want to know, but a good start. Not too expensive at $10, and you can preview it. NFI.

(Looks like farmerjones beat me to it. )

[John McGann]

It really helps if you find a human (teacher or another musician who knows theory) to help you- going 100% self taught from books can be tough sledding.

[Bruce Evans]

If you really want to learn music theory, I suggest you forget about mando specific and concentrate on non-instrument centric. It's music theory, whether for mandolin, piano, voice or whatever.

[Perry]

Also I think it's helpful to know how to read music when studying music theory. But to answer the OP...this book may be what you are looking for:

http://www.acutab.com/artists/ohmsen...sictheory.html

Good luck!

[bigbike]

One website that I found, while not mandolin specific, is pretty good. It does teach music theory in a way that I found interesting, and trust me I get bored easily. It was fun, light, and written so the average 10 year old could understand it. www.freeguitarlessons.com should get you there. Look for chord building section and work thru it. And no I do not play guitar. Could not care less about guitars. Too many guitar players out there.

[KristinEliza]

ooo....I forgot about http://www.musictheory.net

It hasn't been updated in a while, but still a good place to start.

[John Kasley]

It really helps if you find a human (teacher or another musician who knows theory) to help you- going 100% self taught from books can be tough sledding.

I agree. FWIW, I audited a Music 101 semester long course at the local college (but I took all the tests). This was a course designed for freshmen music majors who could play their instrument but weren't up to speed on their theory. There was no ear training in the course, you could be stone deaf and still ace this course (although it certainly helped if you can hear). Being of a certain age, it was tough to keep up with the kids but it did drive me to really study and understand the concepts...if I was doing it on my own, without some pressure to do well on the quizzes and tests, I think I would have given up early on.

At the same time, I was taking lessons from a mandolin teacher who had a bachelors degree in music and was familiar with many genres (i.e. bluegrass, jazz, choro) and could tailor his teaching to my interests. He helped me to transfer the theory to the instrument specific, including how to improvise.

There's more to learn, and at some point I'd like to take the next level course..just need to clear the calendar because I know it will take more study than the first course.

[John Bertotti]

Computer program "Practica Musica" is a fun program. To bad I lost my app disc!

[Jim MacDaniel]

There's always Music Theory for Dummies (a real book), but I would prefer to be seen reading Music Theory for Practical People.

[SincereCorgi]

One thing I'd highly recommend is having access to a piano or other keyboard so that you can play examples in the books as you encounter them (even if you don't really play piano). It's one thing to read about how to deal with a French 6th chord, and another to actually fumble through it and get a taste for the sounds. If I had a time machine, I'd tell Freshman College Me to stop being an idiot trying to read harmony books in coffee shops

[bobby bill]

One thing I'd highly recommend is having access to a piano or other keyboard so that you can play examples in the books as you encounter them (even if you don't really play piano).

I agree. And it is not just being able to hear the examples that is useful - there is no other instrument where you can see quite so clearly see all of the notes, their relationships, and whole-step/half step patterns, literally in black and white.

All music students at UT, regardless of their instrument, took a class piano course, not necessarily to learn the piano, but to better understand music.

[Pete Martin]

Thanks for the nice words folks. I wrote my theory book as an intro to theory for folks who didn't have any exposure and wanted to look a bit into it. For a full blown theory book, there are others way better out there.

One thing I like to remind students: to my way of thinking, theory puts names to sounds we hear. If you know the sound, the terms make sense. If you do not know the sound, the terms make no sense. No amount of reading will help you "hear" and "understand" a sound.

I think it is good to study some theory, then put it off for a few months, keep listening to music, then study some more. In my own case, I read Mark Levine's wonderful "Jazz Theory" book (highly recommended, very complete) cover to cover each January. I certainly don't understand everything in there, but each year, I get more. I believe it is because I hear more from listening through the year.

I would follow Johns advice if possible and get a teachers help with theory.

[Doug Hoople]

Take your theory learning in small bites, and be patient. Just try to work in a little here and a little there. Don't try to knock it all over in one big effort.

Also, if it seems "D R Y," that's only because you haven't mastered it yet. It's like any tool... until you can actually use it, it's just a lump of stuff. Once you've applied it and realized something that you wouldn't have realized without it, you'll find it to be VERY compelling.

Like chisels to my master carpenter father-in-law. To me, they're lumps of metal that collect rust. To him, they're a way to work miracles with wood.

[John Bertotti]

I was to impatient to learn theory and Bought Music Theory for Modern mandolin. I read the whole thing and only learned the cirlce of fifths and it isn't inmy permanent memory all that well. I figured what the heck and read it again. So far I suppose I have been through it four or five times and I can't get maybe 5% of what's there. I jumped in hard and fast and it wasn't the best way to do it. Practica Musica had all sorts of exercises I could do on the computer in mando or piano layouts. I need to find that darn app disc! Take it slow!

[GDAE]

I just tried the link to http://www.freeguitarlessons.com/ listed above and got an otherwise blank page with the name of the site and an email address. Is there a direct link to an inner page?

Thanks.

[...and Master of None]

I think that, unless your goal is to teach music or to major in music, studying theory for the sake of studying theory is probably not very productive. I noticed your emphasis on D R Y - typically, when anything we are studying is dry it is because we can't see how the things we are learning are going to be useful. In that case we might be better off taking a step back and deciding if we really need to learn that at all. There may be some other aspect of music theory that would be more immediately useful.

Now, I happen to like music theory, though I'm by no means an expert. But, I hated it until I began seeing how it could help with my real goal, which was to be a better musician. One day I realized that I didn't need a two-inch thick chord book. Simply by learning a few simple rules about chord construction I could throw the book away and quickly work out a fingering for almost any chord in any tuning on any instrument and also know almost instinctively which chords I could substitute without stepping on the music. For me that was huge because I came to music very late and memorizing a bunch of chord shapes was giving me fits. Suddenly I realized that I needed to understand intervals and triad stacking - not so I could understand what someone was talking about on a forum, but so I could throw away that heavy chord book.

That's just one example, but I think if you come at theory from the perspective of, "what do I need to learn to solve this problem?" then you will find it much more enjoyable - and much easier to understand and remember.

Just my $0.02.

John

[Doug Hoople]

That's just one example, but I think if you come at theory from the perspective of, "what do I need to learn to solve this problem?" then you will find it much more enjoyable - and much easier to understand and remember.

+1 for this particular approach. Get a good question that you understand well and try to answer it.

A good starter question would be to learn a tune in two different keys, and then ask the question, "What makes it possible to play a tune that sounds exactly the same when you're playing different notes in the melody and different chords in the harmony?"

This isn't as hard or as abstract as it sounds. You might have done something like that already. Quite often, you'll play a fiddle tune or a Celtic melody in both G and D, or A and D, or E and A, and you'll know them in two keys because you've played with two different groups of people who only know them in their own key.

Or something along those lines. If you drill down on those simple questions looking for simple, clear answers, pestering anyone who's willing to talk to you about it until you get answers you understand, you'll get through the early going focusing on the really essential and most useful material. Intervals, scales, chords, harmonic function... they'll all be part of this pursuit of answers to your questions, but you won't really even know you're working with such hifalutin concepts.

You're just looking for clear, simple answers to a simple question. How hard can it be?

[Bertram Henze]

One thing I'd highly recommend is having access to a piano or other keyboard so that you can play examples in the books as you encounter them (even if you don't really play piano).

Second that. Much of the C-centric nomenklature in music theory becomes clear when mapped to the white-key-centric keyboard.

But don't forget the mandolin altogether, because much about the circle of 5ths becomes clear when mapped to an instrument tuned in 5ths.

[Jim Garber]

I'm interested in biting the bullet and learning music theory

Ouch! That has got to hurt!

Music theory does not have to be painful. Lots of math and ideas that can twist your mind. Just be patient.

[Bertram Henze]

Music theory does not have to be painful.

said the man with the Ab7sus16maj6 chord in his avatar...

[swampy]

I took intro to music theory at a local college about 13 years ago. Was it hard? Heck yeah! I am, however, still digesting the info and it was one of the best things I ever did for myself musically.

[Daijoki]

Thanks, all. I'm not sure how people leaned anything before Internet forums ;-)

I think what I need to do (based on reviewing the above) is list what it is I want to understand... then ask where in all the material I might find some answers (e.g., if you want to learn about adding double stops to a particular tune, look for info on "triads" to understand what they are in the first place. This will help me hone in on the correct material... in the contact of a "task" that interests me.

Thanks,

Scott