Schertler Dyn-M With Avalon

[junglejem]

Has anyone used a Dyn-M pickup directly into an Avalon U5 D.I.? I'm considering my options, and a Dyn-M is one of them, if I can go directly into the Avalon. I don't really want to spend another $300+ for the Schertler preamp. I'm assuming I can get an adapter to go from the Dyn-M's XLR to a 1/4", as the Avalon only has a 1/4" input. But what about the gain level and tone?

[Tim2723]

I'd recommend getting the Schertler and trying it directly into your board. You may quickly find, as many have, that you don't need a preamp at all. The Schertler works more like a dynamic mic than anything else.

[mandroid]

Seems to come up now and then ..

Di's are to plug unbalanced TR stuff (that's why its a 1/4" input) like Guitars into
[as a direct input] into a remote stage snake which is a bunch of Microphone inputs,
since Schertler is a microphonic transducer same output characteristics
as a Dynamic microphone, then a DI is redundant.
save it for plugging your guitar with , like, an onboard preamp into the sound system.

[Jim Nollman]

I second Tim's opinion. A preamp adds nothing to the Schertler, that you can't tweak from the board itself.

[Tim2723]

I may be mistaken, but I believe the preamp does provide the useful function of allowing very long cable runs to the board. Though I don't think too many of us would run into that problem in everyday situations.

[mandolirius]

I second Tim's opinion. A preamp adds nothing to the Schertler, that you can't tweak from the board itself.

Not posting to challenge this (I don't even own a Schertler) but out of genuine curiousity. Why does Schertler offer a preamp that is supposedly made for the pickup?

[Rob Gerety]

Personally, I think this has to do with whether the mic pre amps on the board you use are high quality and whether there is good eq capability on the board. If so, I don't think you need a pre amp. Long runs should not be a problem in most cases - this pick up is like a mic, so if a mic could make the long run ok then you should be ok with this pic up - remember it is a balanced signal - so longish runs should be ok.

But if you don't have a board with these qualities, or if you want to tweak eq yourself without access to the board, then a pre-amp with eq capability will be helpful. Some folks use the pre amp to control their own personal monitor and send a clean signal to the board.

But a high quality pre amp - whether on the mixer board or a separate unit - can make a significant difference in your tone. Also, my experience is that this pick up does need a good deal of treble boost to sound its best on a mandolin. Again, this can be done with a good board. But it can also be done with a stand alone pre amp.

So my approach is to carry a pre amp and use it if it help me in any particular situation - usually I end up using it to control my own monitor and I send a clean signal to the board. But I would consider that a bit of a frill and certainly not necessary.

[mdlorenz]

In my experience the schertler definitely needs some eq'ing to get a desirable tone. Scooping the mids, rolling a little off the top end. That's why they sell a preamp.

[Rob Gerety]

In my experience the schertler definitely needs some eq'ing to get a desirable tone. Scooping the mids, rolling a little off the top end. That's why they sell a preamp.

I actually increase treble with mine substantially - for what its worth.

[mandroid]

Anyhow for the benefit of the OP: , AFIK, A pre-amp and a DI are 2 different things,

they get packaged as a combination, but stand-alone of each are also made.

Baggs PADI for their Piezoelectric pickups is one such combination of 2 devices.

Schertler makes a preamp XLR in & out, which also splits off a dry signal to use as a source for the House soundboard ,
but it does not have the impedance changing requirement as the pickup out put could go to the board, directly..

the pre/tone control there would feed a powered monitor , controlled by the player , locally.

If the house controls the monitor [or you can reach over to the onstage mixer],
that piece is unneeded.

I sit next to my amp and just go direct.
dont get any loud gigs, it's more of a hearing aide in dead rooms.

[Jim Nollman]

I've never used the Schertler with a preamp into an adequate board. I don't feel i need to. I too boost the treble, but not by very much, and the board I use has a treble boost.

I have used the Schertler a few times, to some good effect, when plugging into an acoustic instrument amp. It works OK, but even when the amp has a mic in, it doesn't sound as transparent as with a good PA. After trying this setup several times, these days when I know I'm going to be using an amp in advance, I prefer NOT to bring my BRW mandolin, but use my Godin electro-acoustic. That's what the Godin's for.

[literarymadness]

I have been using the Schertler Dyn M with an Avalon U5 for about a year. I bought the Shertler Pre-III but didn't like it. The U5 has a variety of pre-programmed EQ maps that were specifically designed for acoustic instrument applications. It does a great job of giving the Dyn M just enough warmth while maintaining transparency. Just click the dial till you find an EQ map you like. Chris Thile during the last year or so of his Nickel Creek days used a U5 with a Dyn M (though it is not his current set up) and according to an Acoustic Magazine article, he was quite happy with it at the time. Gain is adjustable. I don't like having to use a transformer (XLR low to 1/4 high z). But they don't make a U5 version that is XLR so you don't reallt have a choice.

[Tim2723]

Not posting to challenge this (I don't even own a Schertler) but out of genuine curiousity. Why does Schertler offer a preamp that is supposedly made for the pickup?

I'm not completely convinced that Schertler really pushes their preamp as an accessory to the Dyn-M as much as dealers list them together. You get a lot of those "People who have looked at this have also looked at..." listings on the websites, but I don't know if that means much. It does tend to give the impression that they have to be bought together.

Oh and Rob, just to clarify, when I say long runs I mean 200+ feet. Very rare for most of us who are used to standing within sight of the board. But that's the way my local auditorium is set up. The booth is over 300 feet (in terms of wire) from the stage. They provide all the tech stuff though, so I still wouldn't own one of these.

Actually, I think in that case they convert the signal into a higher voltage line, something like 24 volts?, then back again. Not sure how that works. I do remember one of their techs saying something about changing the micro-volts to 24 volts though.

[junglejem]

The U5 has a variety of pre-programmed EQ maps that were specifically designed for acoustic instrument applications.

I am on my second Avalon U5...sold the first one and immediately regretted it. In my opinion it is the classiest piece of equipment I've owned for amplifying acoustic guitars. Absolutely transparent, crystal clear, tube-like warmth. I cannot say enough about it. So I'd like to think the Dyn M would work well with the U5. Apparently it might not even be necessary though. But either way, what I'm hearing from this thread is that the Schertler Pre is definitely not necessary.

[mandolirius]

<You get a lot of those "People who have looked at this have also looked at..." listings on the websites, but I don't know if that means much. It does tend to give the impression that they have to be bought together.>

I don't pay much attention to that kind of stuff. I'm fairly impervious to most marketing techniques. I just assumed they were meant to be used together, but it appears that's an incorrect assumption.

[mandroid]

I sense the Schertler pre is useful in a situation .. like .. you have a powered floor wedge monitor speaker you want to control, for tone and volume.

and you also have to send a signal to the main board for the house, and the board Op would give a different mix out the mains.

Likelihood of me in one of those situations is Nil, so I just run direct to my AC 60 .
[there's patch out possibility on the back of it, anyhow]

running the Z up to an input, like that Avalon, and then back down to it's DI output ,
can only add circuit Noise ... but if it works for You, ..

[kwd]

I'm primarily a double bass player. The Schertler Dyn-B suffers from some resonance problems in the 120kHz range. I believe it's documented in their pdf owner's guide for the Dyn-B. The Schertler preamp has a resononance/notch control that covers that frequency. I think necessity of the pre-amp is primarily to address that particular problem -which should not be an issue for amplifying the mandolin.

I'm not saying that their pre-amp doe not have other useful features, only that one of them is a bass peculiar function.