Anybody Play a Banjolin?

[pinky57]

I saw a banjolin and really think I have to have one. Has anyone played one/have one and what do you think about it.

[mandroid]

I have a few,.. a nice Vega little wonder 8 string, and a couple cheaper ones which have been converted
to 4 string ,which I later learned are termed 'Melody Banjos' if made as such.
Benefit , you can hear yourself in a loud session room , detrimentally your mistakes are right out there too.

Doubles well, an octave up, with the also GDAE tuned Irish Tenor Banjo.

[Eddie Sheehy]

I got a Vega Little Wonder....Little Wonder I'm going deeeef.....

[chordbanger]

I bought a Rogue Banjolin. Bad action on it, and it is unfixable. I threw it down in the cellar, and will probably throw it out on the dump. It was a waste of money, and I feel like I was ripped off. The luthier tried to fix it, and told me it is unfixable. It is unplayable. I have a lot of respect for all instruments, but this instrument is so lousy, that I do not care if I set a match to it. I sanded the bridge down, and then sent it to a luthier, and he took the neck off it, and everything was done to try to make the action better, but to no avail. It's junk. If you buy a banjolin, make sure it is of good quality, so you don't get ripped off like I did. The Rogue was from Musicians Friend, approximately $300.

[Jim Kirkland]

I have a 1915 Washington. It sure has been fun. I took it to a jam this past Sunday, and had to hold back, it sure is loud. Wife tells me I need to sell it, she said it hurts her hearing. I just bought her some new ear plugs.

[journeybear]

Sorry you had such a rotten experience, chordbanger. Maybe that was just the wrong brand. I see them on ebay all the time - Gibson, Vega, Slingerland - but not Rogue.

I too had a Vega and had no problems with it, except it was awfully loud. It worked well for the jug band I was then playing in, espcially for the upbeat and ragtime numbers. I found it utterly devoid of subtlety, though. So when I had an opportunity to trade it for an older instrument with smaller and skin head, I went for it - a vast improvement. But when the skin broke and I brought it in to my luthier, he said it needed additional work, and I was looking at paying more than twice my original investment. Since by then I was no longer in the band and my motivation was pretty low, I left it with him while I thought it over. It's been some fifteen years now ...

[allenhopkins]

I bought a Rogue Banjolin...unfixable...unplayable...so lousy, that I do not care if I set a match to it...It's junk. If you buy a banjolin, make sure it is of good quality, so you don't get ripped off like I did. The Rogue was from Musicians Friend, approximately $300.

But really, tell us how you feel about it!

That's a really sad story. (I'm assuming, by the way, that by "banjolin" we mean a banjo-mandolin or mandolin-banjo, small banjo body, eight doubled strings, mandolin-length scale, right? There's another instrument specifically termed "banjolin" that has only four strings, but is not, apparently, a banjo-ukulele. Not discussing that one.)

The banjo-mandolin had surprising popularity in the early years of the 20th century; as a result, there are many of them around. Major instrument companies like Gibson, Paramount, Vega etc. made good quality instruments. There were also a large number of "trade" instruments, made by mid- and lower-level firms and sold by large distributors such as Bruno & Sons. These were also sold through mail-order catalogs.

It's pretty easy to find the older instruments around. Bernunzio, for example, has eight listed, by Vega, Orpheum, Dobson, Ditson etc., prices from $250 to $675. Elderly has six, mostly Gibsons and Vegas, in a higher price range. But you can get into a quality banjo-mandolin for less money than an equivalent quality conventional mandolin, because the banjo-mandolin is less popular and the market is smaller.

Were I to be in the market for a new instrument, I'd probably investigate the Gold Tone MB-850 for about $450. I've had good luck with Gold Tone instruments, and they seem to be high-quality Asian imports.

I have a Vega Little Wonder, which was one of Vega's less expensive banjo lines, but still featuring a tone ring. Mine was probably made 19210-20 or so. Banjo-mandolin is very much a "niche" instrument; it's quite loud and raucous, with hardly any sustain and a relatively harsh quality. On the plus side, it can be very effective for genres such as ragtime and klezmer. A banjo-mandolin can hold its own volume-wise with almost any other instrument, and can provide a punchy, trebly sound that's unique.

One of the bands i'm in, Innisfree, features Mark Deprez on a banjo-mandolin he built himself. Here's a medley of jigs featuring Mark, along with Barb Jablonski on hammered dulcimer, Kathleen Cappon on 12-string guitar, and myself on a Sobell mandola. Gives you some idea of the instrument's strengths.

[KanMando]

I have an old Gretsch mando-banjo. It has a "Little Wonder" tone ring, and yes, it's very loud. However, for just practicing around the house, it can be muted with a towel in the pot or pieces of foam rubber wedged between the dowel stick and the head. I am not allowed to play it when my wife is home.

Bob

[chordbanger]

If I had a good quality banjolin, just like anything else, I would find great enjoyment out of playing one, but if you have a suckful instrument, it is hard to try to play it and get enjoyment out of it. I would love to own a good one, because I am sure I would play it alot. Banjolins are a very cool instrument, and I love them, but I no likey Rogue banjolins.

[pelone]

Have a Gibson Jr. No sustain, raw, pretty cool, black paint is checked and has the patina of age, horrible sound, I am not gifted enough to bring out the best in the instrument. Allen Hopkins refers to the groups in the 1920's when this thing was cool---They must have come with ear plugs. I had never understood the apathy, hate, bilious comments and negative attitude exhibited towards banjos but now understand why they may best be immured behind three feet of stone and allowed to languish. But---all things considered---it is a Gibson and is likely to be the only Gibson that I will ever be able to afford.

[Chief]

I"ve got one of those Gold Tones, and it's a pretty cool rig. I actually put a pickup in mine because I play in noisy bars, and with electrified bands. Now it really is loud. In fact, feedback is always on the horizon. A little adjusting of volume, etc. does the trick. I would reccommend the Gold Tone as an alternative to expensive vintage units- unless that's what you're after.

[Anglocelt]

I am a closet banjo-mando player. I keep it in the closet and play wooden ones mostly! This is out of cowardice and for self preservation as you can get some outraged looks in the Irish sessions that I frequent, especially as mistakes tend to be amplified. I used to play one in noisier pub sessions in my youth but I was less sensitive in those days. I stll have some nice ones - a Vega Whyte Laydie and an Orpheum no 1.

The nicest sounding ones I have (quieter and more mellow) are those of the English 'zither banjo' construction, especially those made by Windsor and Abbott. In fact this thread has got me thinking I should decloset my old Windsor and fettle it up again for active service!

Kevin

[mikeyes]

Allen,

That's some of the best banjo-mandolin playing I have heard. Nice arrangement, too.

I have two banjo-mandolins, a Weymann with an 11" head and a Bruno with a smaller head. Both are now played as melody banjos because it is so hard to keep the courses in tune with each other. It works in a session fairly well - there is no problem being heard - but I prefer my tenor banjos for that venue.

Have fun with yours.

[Tom Mylet]

I happen to suffer from BMAS...banjo-mandolin acquisition syndrome, but seem to be in remission. I'm down to three at the moment. My current favorite is a Weymann with a little head-maybe 5 inches. I bought it because it's not as loud as the others-although not quiet enough according to my wife.

Another great thing about it's diminutive size is that it fits in my rollaboard suitcase. As a result, I can now check into a hotel with nary an eyebrow raised. In fact, I'm out of town working and am looking forward to a big night sitting up in bed playing along with the television.

Tom Mylet

[fishtownmike]

I have few and to be honest I play them once and a while then i remember why I hung them on the wall in the first place.

[allenhopkins]

Allen,
That's some of the best banjo-mandolin playing I have heard. Nice arrangement, too.

Thanx -- much appreciated, and I'll pass your comment along to Mark D.

[JeffPedErp]

I was interested in chordbangers comments on the Rogue Mandolin Banjo. I have a Sonata model which appears to be a clone of the Rogue model. The action is quite high on mine and it doesn't sound good at all. I was considering adjusting the head tension but cannot find any information on how to do so. I assume it can be done by using a pair of pliers to turn the knobs on the metal ring.

I also was considering sanding the bridge. Did any of these make any difference to the sound?

thanks

[allenhopkins]

Jeff -- you adjust the head tension by tightening or loosening the bracket nuts, which are the "knobs" at the end of the brackets that hold the stretcher band to the instrument's shell. (Sorry to use a bunch of technical terms, but that's what they're called.) Tightening them tightens the instrument's head, usually increasing the sound volume, and also tends to push the action up, as the bridge doesn't sink as far down if the head's tighter. Tighten the bracket nuts too much, and the head may split. You can get a bracket wrench to fit the bracket nuts, or use a small open-end wrench. Pliers will strip the nuts too some extent, and I wouldn't recommend them.

By "sanding the bridge" I assume you're talking about making it either thinner, or lower, or both. Adjusting the bridge height by shortening the "feet" of the bridge, is the normal way to lower action on a banjo-mandolin. You might want to have someone qualified check to see if the neck meets the shell at the correct angle, as well. On better instruments, this can sometimes be adjusted by threaded "coordinator rods" inside the banjo shell. On a cheap instrument, you may be talking about putting shims between the neck and shell to change the angle.

You can try working on the bridge to improve the action and the sound of your Sonata. Banjo-mandolin bridges are often longer and wider than conventional mandolin bridges. They're usually not height-adjustable the way regular mandolin bridges often are, with threaded posts and adjustment wheels, so actually removing some of the wood is the usual way they must be adjusted.

You may just have a lower-quality cheap instrument, but sometimes adjustments can bring noticeable improvement. Don't expect miracles; it is a banjo-mandolin, after all, and subtle, complex tonality may not be achievable. It wouldn't hurt to have a pro repair shop just take a look at it before you start tinkering. And a good acoustic instrument shop might be able to sell you a bracket wrench that would fit the bracket nuts.

[fred d]

I bought a Gold Tone and played with a local tenor group for a couple years ( had to take off every other string 4 they only alowed 4 strings ) and was complemented of the sound of the little instrument even played it in the Jazz festival best of luck

[JeffPedErp]

Allen Hopkins

thanks for your advice. I'll give it a try and will also put on thinner gauge strings> I believe that Elderly has a mando-bnjo set

[LazyRiver]

I know this is an OLD thread, but my search didn't turn up any others. I purchased a Gibson Jr mandolin banjo about a month ago. I love it!!! I also have mandolins, tenor banjos, banjo uke, octave mandolin and 5-string banjo. I'm still learning the mando, so I am not an expert. However, I like the sound (more mando than banjo), I can play it loudly or softly, and the person who restored it (he's in Vermont and on this forum) put some foam cushioning between the support bar (sorry if I'm naming it incorrectly) and the banjo head. He also put some under the tailpiece cover. The foam may be what makes the sound appealing. In any case, I'm basically playing this and my 5-string. Occasionally I pull out one of my standard mandos (Gibson and Fender). (BTW - the octave mando is a whole other ball of wax and not being discussed here, but I really like it, too.)

[journeybear]

I find they sound more like a banjo than a mandolin. Something about that skin, I reckon ... As I said, devoid of subtlety. Still, I have my eye on one, sitting in one of the local shops, slowly being brought back to life. The banjo player in my band finally made too much of a nuisance of himself a few weeks ago and we have parted ways. I want to seal the deal by providing another way to have that sound in our repertoire (there are a few songs where it really works) without him, before our lead singer begins to miss it enough to want him back. Not too likely, but you never know. Of course, knowing my luck, guess where the banjo player is working these days? Yep!

[Jim Garber]

The only banjolin (I call it a mandolin-banjo or banjo-mandolin) I have is a Weymann style 25 with a skin head. I am guessing that the Vermont guy you talk about is Jake Wildwood and his is wide to use that foam to deaden some of the obnoxiousness of the way-too-bright banjo sound. Still they are fun instruments and loud enought to compete in large jams and to play ragtime, blues, old time and Irish. It think most of the bluegrass folks might give you the stink eye.

[journeybear]

I agree with you about their usage (and also what reaction you might get from bluegrass folks). I found it most useful for upbeat ragtime numbers, playing chords in a tenor banjo way. For slower numbers, I liked tremolo on a single course, what I would call "buzzing" (it was rather bee-like). Had to be real careful about the volume though; it was very easy for it to get too loud.

[LazyRiver]

Yup, it's Jake. I like my mando banjo largely because it feels rugged and substantial - kinda like my 5-string banjo. Been playing banjo a lot longer than mando (2 years vs 2 months). I also like the louder, less delicate sound. (I DO like the mando sound, too.) Not much worried about the bluegrass guys - at least not the ones I know. My banjo does the job at jams. The occasional mando that shows up cannot be heard for all the guitars.