A5 design detail

[Bill Van Liere]

Nice read you guys, best one in a long time, thanks all.

[Mario Proulx]

Fascinating stuff! 12 foot diameter red spruce! I've seen an old photo of an army jeep parked on a black spruce stump, with all 4 tires -on- the stump. When I started working in the Abitibi mill in the mid 80's, there was a black spruce trunk section on display in the entrance lobby that was about 4-5 feet in diameter and 800+ years old. It, like the one in the Jeep photo, were ground up into newsprint pulp.... Sad. Wood was just wood, at one time; none of it was held in the high regard we have for it now. Which is why I find it hard to swallow that the bean counters at Gibson would have imported red spruce when they had great, cheap, and from all methods indistinguishable, large old growth white and black spruce right there in their back yard. Martin, on the other hand, was right there in Red spruce country, so it was naturally their spruce of choice.

As a side note regarding Shay locomotives, we have one here that I remember smoking away through town when I was a wee lad. According to the town's web site: Our Shay, serial#3298, was believed to be the last working Shay in North America. It worked in the Iroquois Falls bush operations from 1947 to 1956, and in the mill yard until the mid 1970's. In the spring of 1979, the Shay was donated to the Town of Iroquois Falls, and became a static display next to the old train station. It is now situated in Devonshire Park where it has been restored.

[Woody Turner]

"I remember taking an old Shay locomotive up through the hardwood forests and on to the red spuce stands at the summit." Actually, now that I think about it, that train ride happened a bit south of Dolly Sods, near Cass. Spruce Knob is also nearby.

[Woody Turner]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but those shots of the Shays are terrific. They're not that environmentally friendly--never were in terms of the logging they enabled--but what other form of transportation has such character and structural refinement--almost scuptural? And power! I can't imagine a diesel pulling those mountain grades.

BTW, Cass Scenic Railroad still has a half-dozen Shays running along 11 miles of steep, switchbacked track in east central WV. The outfit that operates them claims Cass Scenic Railroad State Park to be "America's authentic operating museum of lumber railroading." The park's Web site (http://www.cassrailroad.com/shay7.html) has pix and specs on the bores, drivers, and all the rest for its fleet.

[Don Grieser]

Nobody's mentioned much about Mark Taylor's Prodigal 5 copy of the Loar A5. How'd he do with getting the sound of it?

[Spruce]

I don't want to hijack this thread...

That's pretty funny....

[hank]

Chris's thread My Duff A5 has a sound clip on post#30. I asked at some point in the thread if it was like Loars A5 and Chris responded it was. Pretty bodacious from down under.

[Gail Hester]

Ted should be considered the 'Father of the Red Spruce Revival,' since it was his efforts in the 1980’s that brought about the resurgence of this fine tone wood. Ted began cutting red spruce in 1985, sourcing blowdown trees removed from the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Ted began working with the USFS in West Virginia in 1988, and encouraged them to set aside selected red spruce trees for future tonewood production. It was the availability of Davis red spruce that prompted the introduction of the Collings Clarence White model, the first production guitar with red spruce since the mid-1940’s.

Darryl sent some old red spruce from Ted Davis awhile back. It is incredible wood, taps like a church bell and I wish I had more of it. It sorta spoils you for anything else. I think he wanted me to know what real mandolin wood should be. Now I know.

[hank]

Gail did you see the link in the 95th post of this thread?

[Gail Hester]

Gail did you see the link in the 95th post of this thread?

Yes, thanks Hank. I have an order into John for some mandolin wood.

[Woody Turner]

"hi-jack...to steal goods in transit..." (Webster's New World)

[Mike Black]

Yes, thanks Hank. I have an order into John for some mandolin wood.

You actually got John Arnold to reply to you?

I've tried a few times and different ways... Personal e-mail, Mandolincafe PM and I even tried the "ask a seller a question" section of eBay to get some mandolin woods from him but no avail. He has a lot of guitar top on eBay, but nothing for Mandolin tops.

[fscotte]

Just wanted to bump a great thread in case anyone new missed it.

[Dobe]

[QUOTE=Hans;735016]Keep in mind that Loars were pretty thick compared to some mandolins being made today. Modern builders have had to take into account the idea that many customers want instant gratification in a mandolin, and it's been my experience that you can't have both a Loar sound and a fantastic sounding mandolin right away. Instruments built to Loar specs are very stiff to start and take a lot of pounding to break in. They are not that resonant to begin with. It comes through playing.
Now, you can build an instrument for instant gratification that will be very resonant, sound excellent right out of the box, but will never sound like a Loar. The choice is yours.
Let me also say that you are safer building a thicker instrument. It'll hold together. Builders making "IG" mandolins are close to the edge of collapse, but know through experience how far to go.


I don't know about never sounding like one ( possible McGurk effect here ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypd5txtGdGw ), but then I've only played 1 Loar.
I've always been in this camp: Give me the killer tone out of the box. I don't have 30 - 50- years+ to wait. I'd rather have the gratification now & someday, 10-20+ years, have it re-topped. I'm more of a Nugget guy,(former A-5 owner) & played lot's of em'. Very consistent & yet they still get better with use / age. But I do know of at least a couple that needed to be re-topped (by the man himself of course. Took more than a few months !). I completely agree that's from pushing it to the edge (and perhaps a little over on occasion). I wonder how much weight builders are putting on tone verses longevity throughout the building process. I personally just assume the structural strength will be there if your using high grade materials & keeping pretty close to specs. All my attention is going into tone (near the end of the build).