Are you a licker?

[Greg Mirken]

A few days ago I suggested a poster here lick a rosewood overlay to get a sense of how it would look finished. Mario Proulx immediately responded with a stern caution never to do that, for toxicity and possible allergic reaction. In this litigious age, I backed off and said to wet the wood to see how much it would darken with finish.

So, I don't recommend anybody lick woods, but the fact is I have, my whole adult life. Despite the fact I have other allergies, like cats and pollens, I have never had any sort of reaction to any wood. I do know several people who developed severe allergies to rosewoods by breathing sanding dust.

So I ask you, are you a licker? Don't be embarrased; let's get this out in the open.

[Steve Cantrell]

I think this thread shows great promise just from the outset.

[Jim MacDaniel]

I'm not a licker, but I'm a sniffer.

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm a bit concerned as where this is going to go.

[journeybear]

Hmmm? I've hardly ever noticed any double entendres hereabouts. Besides, I think more often than not us folks think licker is somethin' ya drink.

Anyway, I don't see how a small amount of whatever substance inherent in the wood ingested in this manner can cause you any harm - unless it's been treated with chemicals. I think the problems people experience from breathing dust and other small particulate matter are caused by the way they lodge in their lungs, and of course they are compounded by excessive exposure over long periods of time.

As to wetting the wood, one could always lick one's finger and then rub the wood. Or use water. Why go looking for trouble? Trouble will find you, easily enough.

[JEStanek]

This is a list from MIMF (Musical Instrument Makers Forum) of potentially toxic woods and type of reaction and frequency with which these reactions occur. Consider it an abbreviated Material Safety Data Sheet for builders/owners. It's not just the particulates that lead to health problems. The finer the particulates are ground the easier the toxins within them may be absorbed in to the blood across the alveoli in your lungs.

If this thread can serve any purpose, I think the link to this information is it. Please, don't feel the need to chime in with the irresponsible things you do in your shops (e.g., remove all safeties on power tools, soak my hands in my hide glue hot pot like in Palmolive, snort ebony dust, lick fingerboards, sniff soundholes, buff in the buff, etc).

Many plants have toxins in them to keep other organisms from eating them. Plants don't grow altruistically to be consumed by others. These compounds are survival mechanisms for the plant's body while edible fruit aid in seed dispersal (since only Ents have arms to throw seeds with but all the Ent-wives are missing so there goes that theory).

Jamie

[billkilpatrick]

i'm a lover ... or at least, i used to be.

[barry k]

ever get a splinter doing that?

[re simmers]

I'm not a licker, but our cat, punkin sits in front of the TV practicing her licking every evening.

Bob

[lgc]

I'm a sniffer too.

[billkilpatrick]

ever get a splinter doing that?

nnn-o ..

[Paul Hostetter]

So I ask you, are you a licker? Don't be embarrassed; let's get this out in the open.

To simulate the look of finished rose(or whatever)wood, I usually use a swipe of lacquer thinner. Other fluids would probably do the job just as well. I can't imagine sniffing it would do much of anything in that regard.

I confess I haven't shied away from occasional licking, and I'm still ticking.

A quick look at that MIMF list makes me wish someone over there had done their homework better.

[journeybear]

Well, thank you, Jamie, for that list. I had no idea about all those sensitivities. I have learned something today. The rest of you guys, you are just silly!

[allenhopkins]

Well, I'm not a licker -- nor a builder, nor a repairperson -- but I wonder just what information one would get from licking/tasting the surface of an instrument, that couldn't be obtained by moistening it in some other way. Avoiding even the low-probability chance of encountering and ingesting a harmful substance, would seem to me to make licking a "last resort" type of procedure.

It reminds me a little bit of a very odd, brief encounter I had years ago with Tony Bird, a South African emigre´folk singer, who tested the charge in his effects' 9-volt batteries by touching his tongue across both terminals. He suggested I do the same, and I declined politely. There are little battery testers that give the same info without imparting an electric shock to one of the body's most sensitive areas.

So, if you're a "licker," is it because the tongue's an always-handy source of moisture, or is there something you can learn only by licking?

[JEStanek]

You guys remember Yukon Cornelious from Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer? He would throw his pick into the snow, get it out and lick the end to identify, "Nothin", "peppermint". or "Gold-Yahooo!!!"

Paul, if there are inacuracies on the MIMF page I linked to, would you be willing to post a more accurate list here? I'm not being snarky. Several times we have had builder speak of their concerns working with some of the exotic woods and their dusts, and I believe it would benefit all our builders if a good source of info were located and searchable here.

Thanks,
Jamie

[journeybear]

The author of that list admits it's a hodgepodge, so I imagine any contribution to spruce it up (pun intended) would be much appreciated. It could really use a more scientific approach.

As to your questions, Allen, I think the use of the tongue as a testing device is instinctive and expedient. It does make a lot more sense to wet a finger and then wet the wood, but perhaps if one is used to working with woods one develops a familiarity with and fondness for them that may preclude a more sensible approach. Using another liquid as Paul suggests, even just water, sounds a lot more ... I dunno, smart.

I learned the battery trick from someone I used to play with, and it is, again, an expedient if not exact test. Sometimes in a middle-of-a-gig situation one throws caution to the winds, and it's more important to find a used battery that will get you through the set than health considerations. Once you learn what a new battery "feels" like you can judge whether a battery has some juice left or only just a little. It's most effective in telling if a battery is completely dead, though.

[CES]

[Mario Proulx]

Greg, it's not surprising that you have licked woods all your life and got away without any ill effects, because the majority of people will indeed be fine. But don't suggest that anyone can just because you can, because the odds will stack up, and someone will eventually react. I start each day with a handful of dry roasted peanuts followed by a couple eggs(bad habit...), but that doesn't mean everyone can, also, right? right! Someone who's allergic to peanuts and/or eggs would likely die on day one of my routine.

All plants have defense mechanisms, and the tropical woods often have nastier ones because they need to fight off nastier foes. But even looking at home, do you suggest anyone can lick poison ivy or poison oak? Of course not, yet the same natural elements that make those nasty to most of us(yes, some people are completely immune to these two) -can- be present in woods also, with some woods more likely so.

There are way better and safer ways to wet a piece of wood to see what it will look like under finish.

[F-2 Dave]

It seems that I can remember a poster or publicity shot of one of the KISS band members with his freaky long tongue extended down to the fingerboard of his guitar. Until now I always assumed that this was done just for whatever kind of publicity that kind of behavior gets you. But now I realize that this metal maniac may be curious about a possible finish on his fingerboard. Interesting, the things you pick up around here.

[Django Fret]

Hmmm? I've hardly ever noticed any double entendres hereabouts. Besides, I think more often than not us folks think licker is somethin' ya drink.

JB, didn't Ogden Nash once say "Candy is Dandy but Licker is Quicker"? Or maybe he spelt it another way...

[journeybear]

Dunno if Ogden Nash said it first, but many have said it, for sure. And they got more than licker down in Costa Ricker. But it ain't nobody's business ...

[Christopher Standridge]

Naphta works well for that purpose and maybe a little less toxic than the lacquer thinner, but I just use a spray bottle of good ol' tap water.

[Django Fret]

Dunno if Ogden Nash said it first, but many have said it, for sure. And they got more than licker down in Costa Ricker. But it ain't nobody's business ...

But my own? So Taj said it first????

[journeybear]

Oh lawdy no - goes back to the 1930s at least - Fats Waller and Billie Holliday had their fun with it ... as have many others ...

[jim_n_virginia]

I worked in a woodshop years ago and ran a huge planer and we used to sell the woodshaving to horse barns who put the shavings in stalls. We could only sell certain shavings to them and I was told some shavings would kill a horse because it would absorb the toxicity up through it's hoofs.

I wouldn't lick wood or ingest it in any way just in case myself. I have worked with wood for most of my life and I have tried to take great care not to breath the dust much to the amusement of past co-workers who laughed at me for wearing a mask.

So I'm not a builder (of instruments anyways) so I am not a licker OR a sniffer but if I see some pretty wood somewhere i always seem to run my hands over it so I guess I am a "feeler"